What are you playing now?

    i agree on the mindgames, but to have stealth as is only for the mind games would be enabling terrible design for the offshot chance that you can juke or bait people around with it.

    those same mindgames are already enabled without stealth and can be done with just juking anyway.maybe stealth should have tiers, so that you can disguise yourself better. level 1 stealth requires 1 item, level 2 requires a recipe + item etc. i think this would perhaps make it more worthwhile lategame, since it would scale a bit better.

    Yeah one good thing about stealth is it can be used to cause the other team to spend gold on wards etc. It's kind of a money sink for the other team.

    That is my point though it's not overpowered. Eve in lol was like a weaker Riki and they still nerfed her to hell because low levels weren't smart enough to spend money on wards.

    i think that's one of the best things HON did: balance only after highest tier players. and sure it's a money sink, but effective use of a gem on a really tank hero (bristleback) renders a stealth hero completely useless lategame, which works contrary to e.g. riki.

    icefrog is also notorious for balancing according to the top tier players, but the top players just isn't european/american (they are chinese).

    Gems come in a very short supply (which means you can just kill the carrier and destroy the item (or pick it up and use it yourself), and it costs 700g, which can make a dent in your economy if you buy it early). I would not say stealth is broken, its just an ability that is commonly used for heroes that are good early to mid game. Late game it is only viable in certain situations but any good stealth player learns to always check who has the gem/ward/dust on the other team to stay far away from them.

    Also, a team with a stealth carry/ganker would do well to focus the one with the gem first. Or the stealthy hero just cant join team battles early, which isnt that terrible as long as they join the battle at some point.

    i'd agree with you skjalg, but the point is that most heroes with stealth abilities are late gamers, and for someone such as riki, he even uses his ultimate and best skill on only getting free stealth. it's not as easy as just focusing the person with the eye, refer to my previous example with bristleback, who can literally kill your entire team because he can just soak up the damage like it was nothing. i think balancing it out so it takes more than just one item to see through all kinds of stealth would be a step in the right direction, more so than just leaving it as is. the whole fact that you can counter a heroes ultimate skill, supposedly the best skill for a hero, with a 700g item is just silly. stealth isn't fine, it's never been fine and it needs a severe overhaul. it's by far one of the biggest gripes with dota/hon

    You're wrong. Most heroes with stealth as their main mechanic (such as bounty hunter, nyx assassin, riki maru and maybe broodmother) are all roamers which all peak mid game and then fall off. Only carries are really what you'd call late gamers. There are a few other heroes that has stealth but this is mainly used as an escape mechanic such as Sand King, Broodmother, Phantom Lancer. Mirana who can stealth her entire team kind of falls outside of this.

    Which leaves Lanaya who can stealth when standing still, which makes her a surprise when she appears, but after she is mainly a carry that doesn't need that skill late game as it is much more needed early to mid game (Where stealth is dangerous).

    Also, I wouldn't go so far as to say that rikis best ability is his stealth, its by far his smoke screen which silences, slows, and makes them miss. Absolutely horrible to be up against as a support player, and it synergizes really well with his other abilities. And even if he is spotted he can in most cases smoke screen and blink strike away to safety.

    Now compare this stealth ultimate to bristleback's ultimate which makes him run faster, but only if he casts a spell.. +ms is all he gets... Not so great. Its the syngergy with the rest of his abilities that makes it killer. Also, he is a super great tank yes, which you should never chase, but other than that you should just ignore him in team fights because unless he is really fed he has no damage output compared to a carry...

    Also, you forget that stealth is largely tweaked around fade time and visibility range and line of sight of the gem/wards.

    One of my friends has sang all the praises of DotA2 at me, but I'd mainly be playing solo and playing a MOBA by yourself is borderline masochistic. I also find the mixture of delay, turn speeds and slow animations make it feel very unresponsive to me.

    Quote from AlexM

    One issue I have with LoL is that a lot of the balance patches are knee-jerk reactions or based off designers preferences For instance the lead designer Morello has said many times how much he hates Irelia and Eve and they have suffered for it. They took everything unique away from Eve and for 1 year essentially annexed her to underpowered, only to patch her after that year taking away everything that was fun about her.

    While they have nerfed Irelia constantly she is still in a good spot because her kit does so much (mixed damage, heal, very mobile, CC mitigation, etc.). As I understand it Morello was against having champions that have such diverse skill-sets more than anything else, as they are hard to balance... But then they forgot about all that and added Rengar, Kha’Six, Vi, etcetera anyway.

    I was never around for the Eve rework, but I’m kind of amazed Karma and Sejuani have been in a bad state for so long. It doesn’t seem like something that would take this long, and even some better numbers until the reworks happen would be beneficial. Sejuani is still full-price too, so I can’t even be cynical about the monetisation aspect.

    So I decided to give Mass Effect a go after years of putting it off. I don't think I'm going to last much longer.

    My first impression was great, I thought the graphics were spectacular considering the game's age and I was enjoying the Deus Ex-like dialogue stuff going on. However after landing for the first mission and experiencing the actual gameplay I'm really, really not feeling it. I guess the game's age is a contributing factor, but also this just generally leans a bit too far towards the 'RPG' side of things for me. Too much worrying about points, party members, stats, pick-ups, and generally everything I don't really like.

    It also likely doesn't help that I just finished 30+ hours of incredible Deus Ex: HR, with its ultra-refined gameplay that is more or less the best I've experienced this generation. In comparison Mass Effect actually feels quite primitive and even the environment detail is leaving me wanting after HR's ultra-detailed areas. Maybe it'll improve, but usually if I'm not feeling receptive towards a game at this point it doesn't get much better with time. It'll be a shame if I can't enjoy this as I pre-emptively bought the sequel too. Maybe Dishonored will have to be my next buy.

    Fucking Deus Ex, man. That game was so good almost everything seems kind of crappy now.

    Yeah, funnily enough I actually played DeusEx:HR after I finished Mass Effects 1 and 2 and I found ME quality of the dialogs, the dialogs tree, and choices etc pale in comparison to DX's. And tbh for me, that's what Mass Effect is all about, the dialogs and the choices and it's what made me play through them.

    Tbh, the first one is the worst of them all in my opinion (Sorry Minos and Chris ) The gameplay feels so clunky and old, RPG elements on it is a bit weird and badly explained, UI is bad but the plot of the first is the best of them all so it's worth to put up with all that just to experience the awesome story. ME2 and 3 are absolutely awesome tho, specially the second one (my fav, and it was GOTY)

    So yeah, my advice? Try and finish the first just so you can carry the lore and your character to the other two as you can use the same save game, and by the end of the trilogy you'll know why this is considered one of the best franchises ever.

    Quote from Skjalg

    You're wrong. Most heroes with stealth as their main mechanic (such as bounty hunter, nyx assassin, riki maru and maybe broodmother) are all roamers which all peak mid game and then fall off. Only carries are really what you'd call late gamers. There are a few other heroes that has stealth but this is mainly used as an escape mechanic such as Sand King, Broodmother, Phantom Lancer. Mirana who can stealth her entire team kind of falls outside of this.

    Which leaves Lanaya who can stealth when standing still, which makes her a surprise when she appears, but after she is mainly a carry that doesn't need that skill late game as it is much more needed early to mid game (Where stealth is dangerous).

    Also, I wouldn't go so far as to say that rikis best ability is his stealth, its by far his smoke screen which silences, slows, and makes them miss. Absolutely horrible to be up against as a support player, and it synergizes really well with his other abilities. And even if he is spotted he can in most cases smoke screen and blink strike away to safety.

    Now compare this stealth ultimate to bristleback's ultimate which makes him run faster, but only if he casts a spell.. +ms is all he gets... Not so great. Its the syngergy with the rest of his abilities that makes it killer. Also, he is a super great tank yes, which you should never chase, but other than that you should just ignore him in team fights because unless he is really fed he has no damage output compared to a carry...

    Also, you forget that stealth is largely tweaked around fade time and visibility range and line of sight of the gem/wards.

    riki, who has a scaling damage modifier, a trait inherent to carries, peaks midgame? or gondar, who has the same? news to me. both riki and gondar are fearsome lategamers that can rip through an enemy team given enough time. what's more, riki's scaling damage stacks with critical strike, making lategame one hits an absurd reality. i've played both well, i know various ways of countering reveals, but that doesn't mean that stealth isn't inherently broken. honestly, i think stealth would be fine if by stealth it did more than just hide you, and lasted for shorter durations. i love weaver's stealth because it's an amazing speed boost for 4 seconds with low cooldown. riki and gondar really need something like that to add to their stealth, because they're near useless in higher tiers as is.

    and what the fuck is this shit about you telling me i'm wrong? it's not like there is one right answer to this; that's why it's a design problem. besides that, my suggestion didn't remove any of the functionality that already exists, but rather expanded on it in a way that would make sense.

    as for bristleback, he gains more than just movement speed. he gains insane damage, allowing him to easily plow through enemies. he is considered a carry by many, because of his quill frequency and stacks, dealing massive damage in a short timespan. saying that his damage output is nothing compared to a carry's is not looking at the picture as a whole.

    I'm telling you that you're wrong about those heroes peaking late game because you're wrong about that and there is a right answer to that question. There's a reason why they are not viable carry picks in competitive games and usually used for the 2nd or 3rd position on a team. its because they peak middle game and are used to keep the other team under pressure until your carry comes to fruition. Unless ofcourse you build a team around winning early to mid game, which of course then they are superb carry picks.

    Sure you can build them as carry and have success as that, but you can do that with almost any hero as items have a lot to say in dota. But on a regular basis, those heroes are not good late game carry picks. You can disagree with me all you want, but first think about using any of those 3 heroes (bh, nyx, riki) against a late game carry like medusa, void or pl and that the game lasts >60 minutes. The stealth hero is going to lose unless the other team fucks up badly in a team fight.

    They cant one shot entire teams unless they really owned early game and got to their mid game, where they peak, earlier than the other team. if you think otherwise you are wrong wrong wrong wrong

    Heres a discussion about bounty hunter which is in line with my arguments

    Quote

    You're made as a ganker. Play like one. Don't lane forever or you'll be just as useless as a farming Furion.

    You can buy defensive items, but I generally avoid it because you're not the carry. You're all about hit and run, and ensuring you have the damage to do so is essential.

    Heres a discussion about nyx

    Quote

    He also suffers from a dropping off in usefulness after the ganking phase ends

    Heres a discussion about riki

    Quote

    The thing with riki is that he's a carry that is easy to counter but on the other hand reaches critical mass much, much sooner than other carries

    As for bristleback, you're right about the damage. Looked up an older version of the ability on a wiki so looks like he got that buff at some point. And I do love the guy. He's such a machine once he starts rolling.

    but riki is only a ganker secondary, he is too reliant on farm to be proper useful as a ganker. then you could say he's a semi carry but really, that doesn't fit his skills either because in both cases he is lacking immediate burst damage.

    it still does not in any way rectify his ultimate skill being countered by a 700 gold item.

    additionally, his passive never stops scaling, meaning that he only gets stronger into lategame, not weaker. there is an obvious conflict in this

    Quote from Taylor

    One of my friends has sang all the praises of DotA2 at me, but I'd mainly be playing solo and playing a MOBA by yourself is borderline masochistic. I also find the mixture of delay, turn speeds and slow animations make it feel very unresponsive to me.

    While they have nerfed Irelia constantly she is still in a good spot because her kit does so much (mixed damage, heal, very mobile, CC mitigation, etc.). As I understand it Morello was against having champions that have such diverse skill-sets more than anything else, as they are hard to balance... But then they forgot about all that and added Rengar, Kha’Six, Vi, etcetera anyway.

    I was never around for the Eve rework, but I’m kind of amazed Karma and Sejuani have been in a bad state for so long. It doesn’t seem like something that would take this long, and even some better numbers until the reworks happen would be beneficial. Sejuani is still full-price too, so I can’t even be cynical about the monetisation aspect.

    oh man I forgot about karma and sejuani

    Quote from Thrik

    So I decided to give Mass Effect a go after years of putting it off. I don't think I'm going to last much longer.

    My first impression was great, I thought the graphics were spectacular considering the game's age and I was enjoying the Deus Ex-like dialogue stuff going on. However after landing for the first mission and experiencing the actual gameplay I'm really, really not feeling it. I guess the game's age is a contributing factor, but also this just generally leans a bit too far towards the 'RPG' side of things for me. Too much worrying about points, party members, stats, pick-ups, and generally everything I don't really like.

    It also likely doesn't help that I just finished 30+ hours of incredible Deus Ex: HR, with its ultra-refined gameplay that is more or less the best I've experienced this generation. In comparison Mass Effect actually feels quite primitive and even the environment detail is leaving me wanting after HR's ultra-detailed areas. Maybe it'll improve, but usually if I'm not feeling receptive towards a game at this point it doesn't get much better with time. It'll be a shame if I can't enjoy this as I pre-emptively bought the sequel too. Maybe Dishonored will have to be my next buy.

    Fucking Deus Ex, man. That game was so good almost everything seems kind of crappy now.

    ME1 is certainly clunky, but the story elements are great. I recommend to everyone to just play 1 as a run and gun soldier - or if you have patience, infiltrator Everything that bothers you about ME1 is beautifully revisited in ME2. I'm surprised with the dialog complaints. I've played many a game in my day and I've never been connected to characters like I was in the Mass Effect universe.

    On a side note, Dishonored seems like a fantastically unfinished game. All the right stuff is there, but its just short and just ends. It left me wanting a lot more, anyway, I'd wait for a steam sale.

    Quote from Thrik

    So I decided to give Mass Effect a go after years of putting it off. I don't think I'm going to last much longer.

    My first impression was great, I thought the graphics were spectacular considering the game's age and I was enjoying the Deus Ex-like dialogue stuff going on. However after landing for the first mission and experiencing the actual gameplay I'm really, really not feeling it. I guess the game's age is a contributing factor, but also this just generally leans a bit too far towards the 'RPG' side of things for me. Too much worrying about points, party members, stats, pick-ups, and generally everything I don't really like.

    It also likely doesn't help that I just finished 30+ hours of incredible Deus Ex: HR, with its ultra-refined gameplay that is more or less the best I've experienced this generation. In comparison Mass Effect actually feels quite primitive and even the environment detail is leaving me wanting after HR's ultra-detailed areas. Maybe it'll improve, but usually if I'm not feeling receptive towards a game at this point it doesn't get much better with time. It'll be a shame if I can't enjoy this as I pre-emptively bought the sequel too. Maybe Dishonored will have to be my next buy.

    Fucking Deus Ex, man. That game was so good almost everything seems kind of crappy now.

    I'd say give Mass Effect a go at least until after the council meeting in the citadel. That's when the game really starts

    I agree that the combat is not the best but it never bothered me much to be honest. Been forcing myself through ME3 for the past 3 or so months but I can't stand the "modernized" combat in that one... it just feels too much like a generic 2012 covershooter with endless hordes of the same uninteresting enemies. It definitely has some good moments, but it didn't get me as hooked as the first one.

    While ME is surely a little rough on the edges when it comes to shooting, I still think it's the best one in the series and one of the best games I have ever played. Surely ME2 has better combat, but in modernizing some of the mechanics I think the game lost some of its magic (elevators, mako missions, weapons overheating instead of ammo etc...). I also think that the first ME had a pretty tight storyline, with great twists and the best villain ever in a videogame. The second one on the other hand has the story all over the place and a super lame ending... Still a great game tho

    Quote from Sentura

    but riki is only a ganker secondary, he is too reliant on farm to be proper useful as a ganker. then you could say he's a semi carry but really, that doesn't fit his skills either because in both cases he is lacking immediate burst damage.

    it still does not in any way rectify his ultimate skill being countered by a 700 gold item.

    additionally, his passive never stops scaling, meaning that he only gets stronger into lategame, not weaker. there is an obvious conflict in this

    I'd agree with you if the gem wasn't dropped at death and had map wide range. Which means his ulti is only countered if you are there and only until you die, and riki is very proficient at getting close to people even when they are carrying a gem (because of blink strike). Of course you could put the gem on a tank like bristleback, which is a direct counter to riki with his passive, but then the supports need to be very close to the tank and they'd rather not be close to him when he initiates because they'll get picked off so easily in a team fight. Thats when riki should strike from behind, thus rendering the gem useless as it is too far away from the supports who are dropping like flies..

    Quote from Minos

    I'd say give Mass Effect a go at least until after the council meeting in the citadel. That's when the game really starts

    I agree that the combat is not the best but it never bothered me much to be honest. Been forcing myself through ME3 for the past 3 or so months but I can't stand the "modernized" combat in that one... it just feels too much like a generic 2012 covershooter with endless hordes of the same uninteresting enemies. It definitely has some good moments, but it didn't get me as hooked as the first one.

    While ME is surely a little rough on the edges when it comes to shooting, I still think it's the best one in the series and one of the best games I have ever played. Surely ME2 has better combat, but in modernizing some of the mechanics I think the game lost some of its magic (elevators, mako missions, weapons overheating instead of ammo etc...). I also think that the first ME had a pretty tight storyline, with great twists and the best villain ever in a videogame. The second one on the other hand has the story all over the place and a super lame ending... Still a great game tho

    Sums it up perfectly, with regards to ME and ME2. I haven't played ME3 yet, I need to give it a go!

    Quote from Skjalg

    I'd agree with you if the gem wasn't dropped at death and had map wide range. Which means his ulti is only countered if you are there and only until you die, and riki is very proficient at getting close to people even when they are carrying a gem (because of blink strike). Of course you could put the gem on a tank like bristleback, which is a direct counter to riki with his passive, but then the supports need to be very close to the tank and they'd rather not be close to him when he initiates because they'll get picked off so easily in a team fight. Thats when riki should strike from behind, thus rendering the gem useless as it is too far away from the supports who are dropping like flies..

    gem range is 1100, riki's blink is 800. in the heat of the teamfight you may say that gem obviously doesn't counter him, as the other team may be focused elsewhere, except that he attacking all this while, making the point moot. if his team doesn't succeed riki's escape is very limited, because his ultimate skill is entirely countered by a 700g item. the whole point of this conversation is that his ultimate doesn't give him an advantage that he otherwise wouldn't have without it.

    ...maybe what it actually needs is an activate part that stealths him with his current fade time into true invis, shielding him from every kind of detection for 2-3 seconds.

    So I bought Deadlight a few weeks ago. I'm playing it since a few days only. the game is beautifull, really, nice vibes and stuff !

    But i don't know, i'm really bored when I'm playing it, don't know if I will finish it..

    I have the same feeling with Dishonored I started 2 months ago and I really don't enjoying it...

    Looks like I'm bored of a lot of games

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