The Mod Community Today

    After an conversation between my self and KidDynamite, i got thinking about the mod community today and the mod community 10 years ago. I don't think anyone would disagree that it has been slowly on the decline for awhile now. But what is the actual state of the community. Is it slowly bleeding out like one of Jack Bauer's Victims? Or has growth just been stumped by the lack of tools and complexity of games.

    I might be to detached these days but it also seems like mod releases are fewer (We no longer see Counter-Strike style releases from mods). I get this feeling that modders want to release a mod completely bug free, in case Valve (example company) are watching and will give them a shot at retail. I know not all modders aspire to going retail, but do the majority? Has it become a second job rather then a spot of fun? Have games such as Counter Strike, RO, Garrys Mod, been negative effect on the community as a whole?

    But most importantly what is it's future.

    I'm sorry if this is all a bit jumbled, writing isn't my strongest skill and it's been fragmented typing while doing the work thing.

    The mod community isn't dead, it has just changed name and form to "indie games" community.

    As tools have become better and cheaper, more and more hobby game developers make their own games on "licensed" engines rather than making a mod. For me it was a very easy choise to purchase Unity (or UDK / Ogre Engine) and create something you can make a profit of instead of creating a mod.

    I agree, it's far from dead. You only need to look at Moddb to see stuffs still being posted daily. Indie gaming has always existed, do you mean it's become the dominate force? Do mods fit into the same group as UI Addons and level, content creation flip flop under the Indie title? Is Modding the wrong word these days?

    Thats kind of my question. Has it become such an indepth thing that it's not viable to do without seeing a profit?

    well a lot of people tend to work on own small projects like TF2 hats and maps, and while mapping has always been around, chances of getting into a commercial already released game have never been better, same is true for hats (playerskins earlier times).

    Modding is totally dead. Indie games is very much alive. I don't think you can wrap modding under the indie umbrella. Two different things IMO, but both done by the same group of people.

    Why mod a game when you can make your own game? You also got to look at the decline of PC gaming, there just are not that many PC games out there anymore that are really popular and played a lot.

    Quote from e-freak

    well a lot of people tend to work on own small projects like TF2 hats and maps, and while mapping has always been around, chances of getting into a commercial already released game have never been better, same is true for hats (playerskins earlier times).

    Ah ok so what you're saying is that it has become, hmmm, like more refined. "DLC" is the buzz word atm so creating user content such as (as you said) Hats in TF2 for pre-existing games is where people focus?

    Quote from Hourences

    Why mod a game when you can make your own game? You also got to look at the decline of PC gaming, there just are not that many PC games out there anymore that are really popular and played a lot.

    This is true, and i guess while content can be created for XBL and PSN it truly is indie rather then modding. To my knowledge apart from games like LittleBigPlanet, you can't really create levels or content for pre-existing games in the mod sense.

    i am with skjalg and hourences

    i think the majority of talented modders have graduated to makeing their own games where they own the "product / ip / name /everything" rather than making free content that other companys benefit from.

    complexity of the content has definitly somethign to do with it !

    if you have to make enuagh content to fill a game than hell just make it its own game than !

    but also the availability and quality of the tools has made making enitre games yourself much more feasable these days

    me i dont see myself making another custom map in my life but i sure as hell will make my own games

    What annoys me the most is teams presenting the mod as nothing short of a professional development project with 'official media releases' public relations managers (lol?) and all that other nonsense. They Hunger was the last true mod in my eyes as it felt sloppy and rough in places yet still totally brilliant for a mod. And I think that's what comes down to it now with this newer tech. Everyone tries so hard to make their mod look super awesome and professional they forget what the term mod means.

    Quote from dux

    What annoys me the most is teams presenting the mod as nothing short of a professional development project with 'official media releases' public relations managers (lol?) and all that other nonsense. They Hunger was the last true mod in my eyes as it felt sloppy and rough in places yet still totally brilliant for a mod. And I think that's what comes down to it now with this newer tech. Everyone tries so hard to make their mod look super awesome and professional they forget what the term mod means.

    That's the feeling i'm also getting Dux. Why does everyone wish to be seen as professional so early on, i understand the feeling of power and being the big nob who owns a cool mod...but not before it's made. I find it strange how you could once just nip into an irc room and say hi to the guys making the mod. They would always show images of things being worked on or start random playtests.

    Now i hear of people being kicked from mods teams for "leaking" images. I think i've even seen some mods spending more time creating a beta reporting system then actually designing the mod.

    This is where i think the lines are kind of merging or bluring. Why do people want to call them self a mod when it's actually more indie game design. Is it because if a mod flops then "hey it's just another mod", but if an indie game dies on it's ass then there questions to be answered.

    *edit*

    Sorry i seem to be asking questions with more questions . Just trying to get a sense of understanding on how the land lies these days.

    Well the word "mod" is a modification to a game, so I think that goes under the "UI addon" umbrella as well as map generation.

    Most huge titles now a days ship with some form of content-creating tools (World of warcraft, Crysis, Source, UDK, Starcraft 2 just to name a few). If you compare that against 10 years ago, then you notice that the (few) modders out there are spread over such a vast array of games that it might seem a bit on the slow side for all of them...

    I think its several factors to why it's slowed down/died.

    Steeper learning curve for tools, people are more critical (it seems) since they judge whatever model or texture 14 year old Johnny Modalot (fictional person!!!) creates to the models and textures found in the latest AAA game.

    Game schools are abundant, so people with even a minor interest in games dev can study for a couple of years and most likely get a job afterwards. Before it seemed that modding was THE stepping stone into the industry, but that's the past (sadly).

    Market is completely filled with AAA games, so a new Counterstrike will probably never happen since no player has the attention span or commitment of following beta releases of a no-name mod, since there's so much other cool stuff being released all the time. No players = no feedback or testing, which means slow death for the could-be-great mod.

    As a conclusion, yes I think it's pretty dead. Atleast on lifesupport! Which sucks

    Quote from Skjalg

    Well the word "mod" is a modification to a game, so I think that goes under the "UI addon" umbrella as well as map generation.Most huge titles now a days ship with some form of content-creating tools (World of warcraft, Crysis, Source, UDK, Starcraft 2 just to name a few). If you compare that against 10 years ago, then you notice that the (few) modders out there are spread over such a vast array of games that it might seem a bit on the slow side for all of them...

    Good point. The WOW UI scene is insanely massive and is closer (in my opin) to what the word Modification actually means. Maybe the lingo we use needs to change. It's meaning is being diluted and confused in the generation divide (ok maybe thats a bit extreme but hopefully you get me).

    oh god! it's like parents not getting "cool and hip" words maybe i've just become old.

    Speaking of SC2. I've even seen a lot of SC2 custom content already. The galaxy editor has given us FPS and Side Scroller version of SC2 already....and it's not even out.

    Quote from insta

    Game schools are abundant, so people with even a minor interest in games dev can study for a couple of years and most likely get a job afterwards. Before it seemed that modding was THE stepping stone into the industry, but that's the past (sadly).

    Thats interesting actually...people are trying to market it...crash courses into the games industry. Instead of what was happening 5-6 (even longer maybe) years ago where you had to build up your own portfolio from "mods" you worked on. I guess mappers, texture artists and modellers where more segregated, but now you need to be a master of all trades.

    I didn't think of that.

    i'm currently in the "comfort" of a games related path of study at a university and really, what I experienced at interview situations is that the studys are nice, the projects you do there are interesting and the mods you worked on and the mod scenes you've been in are the ones that count. I got an internship recently where I would usually work in production tools (just cleaning up data really) but when I told I was in Mods and Maps I got the opportunity to work on something much more advanced and self-controlled.

    But lets not turn this into university discussion, just 2 cents on how Modding-Background can still be important even for university backgrounds.

    Quote from Skjalg

    The mod community isn't dead, it has just changed name and form to "indie games" community.As tools have become better and cheaper, more and more hobby game developers make their own games on "licensed" engines rather than making a mod. For me it was a very easy choise to purchase Unity (or UDK / Ogre Engine) and create something you can make a profit of instead of creating a mod.

    i agree, i was thinking about the exact same thing the other day. i think in the future you'll see more people having indie games on their portfolio. not just because they are easier to make, but also because they are better mediums to showcase ideas than traditional art is.

    I don't feel modding is in decline, I think its grown so big you can't get a overview anymore.

    Game magazines can easily fill 2 pages every months with good looking mods for varioes games, so I would sertainly not say its worse then 10 years ago :)

    Its true that a whole generation of modders seems to go indie tough :)

    Modding isn't in decline, it's just changing -- it's not the "total conversion" model of modding anymore. People are still doing "map packs" and people are still doing the smaller mods like UI changes / difficulty mods, etc. There are certainly fewer "big" mods out there now, which isn't necessarily bad.

    Mods are still here... you're just in the game industry now and you're looking for what you remember, but it's not here anymore. It's turned into something different.

    These days 90% of the community that want to play mods expect professional quality stuff from mods. If it doesn't look gorgeous they don't care what the gameplay is like, releasing often without some form of auto patching alienates people who aren't used to downloading stuff and manually running updates for games.

    Sad state of affairs, not like the good old days.

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