Finding a mod team worth your while 101

I'll say no on the first

Yes on the second.

Mods usually fail at level design. For me, level design is everything. You can have mediocre models and other visuals as long as the playability and level design is great. I don't really care about concept art as it doesn't really tell anything about the mod itself. Weapon models don't really tell much either. The two aforementionned are rather common as the main media content. Mods that have only such content to display will fail.

Both mods fail to show decent level design content. Judging by the previous work of the LDs for the first mod it will fail.

I don't think they take half an hour to make but I get your point as and agree with you about getting tired of renders of textured gun models on mod websites. In my opinion mods should just work "in the dark" for a while till there's more to show. There's no point in presenting a dozen of nicely rendered weapon models because after all thats hardly what they will look like in the game anyway. That is, if the game/mod ever comes out..

I usually recognize solid mods by looking at the team roster and who's on it, by the way the mod presents itself, its plot and the work.. "Newbish" mod people tend to release everything to the public as soon as its done. Meh, some mods even release pictures of untextured models, I mean why?

Nightwatch is one of the mods that seems to be going in the right direction...

I can't say if either of those mods will make it, mainly because it all comes down to leadership. Since I don't know either of the leaders on the mods, it's hard to say which one will make it.

There are so many factors to keep in count, and it's not an easy job predicting it from this early stage.

Look at Front Line Force for example, the project died yesterday (Sunday, 28th November) due to a silly conflict between a level designer and the project leader. To be honest, this wasnt the only reason... but it was the final cause.

As I said; there's too many factors with projects like these. So many ways to live and so many ways to die.

Shad0w: Wow, just read the update. Drama-licious. Sad to see such a old mod like FLF die because of that though

Yep, I remember playing that mod back in it's early days... It's sad when you hear something like this happening. However, all things come to an end, so it's a normal thing I guess.

I agree with both insta, its all about leadership. Without a good leader a mod will surely flop...

btw: Flf died? Wow, what a sad day it is. I still got the 1.8 install sitting in a folder.

who gives a fuck if the mod will make it

good people + good idea = a good mod, regardless

Quote from DUFFY

who gives a fuck if the mod will make itgood people + good idea = a good mod, regardless

I agree with Duffy...

Oh God, I agree with Duffy!

*world implodes*

they learn me at schooL!!!!

In his own bizarre way, Duffy makes a good point. Let me explain.

This is the criteria I use to look at mods:

1) Creative Idea/Design

2) Experienced coder in place

3) Mature/focused leadership

4) That Intangilbe 'Thing'

1) A mod has to involve some level of creativity. If it is SP, it needs to have a good plot idea in place. Nobody wants to play a story they've played before. Similarly, nobody wants to play a mod that doesn't go anywhere or engage them. It seems too many mods polarize towards one direction or another. If a mod is multiplayer, it needs to have a good hook. One thing that always saddened me about HL multiplayer mods was that they all seemed to lump together in the pseudo-realism category. If you look back at Q1 and Q2, all kinds of off the wall mods came out. Ones with crazy fast paced deathmatch, ones with insane weapons, ones with realism, ones with slow, sublt gameplay. Hopefully HL2's new engine will help put togethr a mod community more focused on original ideas instead of CS clones.

2) I'll live by my statement till I die: Coders make the mod. People can crap out gun models like nothing else (there is no need to ever make another uzi model every again). Once the community settles down, there will always be plenty of mappers. Sure, right now, those people will the skills to pick up Hammer quickly will have an advantage, but that will disappear over time. But coders are worth their weight in gold. Coding is long hard work and is really the backbone of any mod putting out a new idea. They're responsible for the stability of the mod overall as well as making versions that won't lag people to death online (again, maybe the new SDK will help that). Having a good coder that won't run away in anger with all the code is the.

3) More mods have died because of internal fighting than all other reasons combined. Even the strongest teams cna be split by petty fighting. Hell, it's the freaking history of Mapcore itself. Having a strong, solid leader who can resolve conflicts and keep the mod on track is key. A little ego is a dangerous thing when you've got 30 people on your team. Two people fighting turns into 10 people fighting, turns into everybody fighting, and pretty soon half your team walks out with half your game assets. A good leader also knows not to put people on the team who are going to disrupt the unity. Plus, I'm not working for a 14 year old who can't continue a conversation because it's bedtime.

4) This is the hardest thing to peg down. It's that intangible specialness that certain mods have and others don't. Holy Wars is a good example of that. They just had such a unique way of doing everything. The maps, the models, the gameplay, the attitude. It all had a special feel to it. Part of it is tied to idea #1 as far as being creatively design, but there is a lot more to it that is hard to describe. It's the way the textures look, its the way the website looks, its that feeling you get when you look at a mod and go "Damn, that looks fun." It doesn't always gaurantee longterm success, but it means that the mod will most likely be released, and hopefully remembered.

Hmm, interresting read Fletch..thanx.

coder is almost the most important part of the whole job. i know because i went to join like 3 different mods as lead coder and i remember that i got lazy and did no work.....and the mod just halted to a standstill and everyone quit. its the hardest spot to fill and you really have to know what you're doing BEFORE you start

a poorly made map may be ugly, but it will get the job done. with coding it either works or it doesnt.

btw i typed this before i read what fletch wrote about coders....so yea i basically 100% agree

I'd say talented animators are the hardest to find, above a good coder, and brilliant texture artists are pretty elusive too. You're right though; the coder has to tie all the content in, and keep the 'engine under the bonnet' running smoothly, so to speak.

Quote

3) More mods have died because of internal fighting than all other reasons combined. Even the strongest teams cna be split by petty fighting. Hell, it's the freaking history of Mapcore itself. Having a strong, solid leader who can resolve conflicts and keep the mod on track is key. A little ego is a dangerous thing when you've got 30 people on your team. Two people fighting turns into 10 people fighting, turns into everybody fighting, and pretty soon half your team walks out with half your game assets. A good leader also knows not to put people on the team who are going to disrupt the unity. Plus, I'm not working for a 14 year old who can't continue a conversation because it's bedtime.

So true... I actually had another mod project that I was leading called "Rebellion" (yes, the same name as my current project, but it was radically different). It took a long time to find a good team, but I did find them. I picked up a coder who seemed pretty good. We started developing for an alpha release, but well... the whole problem started with CVS access to the code. I had no intentions in running off with any of the content, yet the coder who set up the CVS had more access than I did. I guess you could say it was a bit of an ego trip, but I wanted at least as much access as he did to the entire CVS (since well, it was hosted off of one of his server boxes which he had root access to). He didn't allow it, we quarrelled over it since I wanted to be able to coordinate the entire direction of the team until everything is stabilized, and I ended up having to kick him out since he wanted to restrict access for me to merely the art sections. The whole team fell apart after that.

You can gather whatever morals you want from that, but if at all possible, I'd like to avoid that same situation again by perhaps creating a team where no one is above anyone else and there is no opportunity to do that (democratic socialism if you want a government system to compare to).