Left4Dead 2

Quote from Jetsetlemming

I'd expect better of you being European, claiming 80% of the market is consoles!

90% of all online gaming in the US is PC according to an NPD report last year, and L4D certainly counts in that group. It's far bigger in Europe, more and more the further east you go.

Altho I highly doubt those numbers (from both of you), then I think you two need to differentiate between online games and SP games. If you want to make SP games then you can't make em for the PC (exclusively) anymore unless you want your economy to get warezed to death.

Quote from Corwin

So why are you even joining a group that says you'll boycott the sequel when you stayed away from the first?

Quote from kleinluka

What Corwin and Defrag said...

Quote from Defrag

lol, why spend so much energy on something when you didn't even buy the game? That's just bizarre.

Rolf... Guys I can't read the forum for you.. Just step back on page 6. Why answer me if you don't read what I've written!?

Quote from Seldoon182

Rolf... Guys I can't read the forum for you.. Just step back on page 6. Why answer me if you don't read what I've written!?

Quote from Seldoon182

I joined coz I think that L4D2 is clearly dedicated to consoles.

I still don't see the point. What would you care if even L4D was developped for consoles or not, you still didn't buy it. Saying you're against the sequel because it's console-oriented is like saying you don't like medium-rare steaks, oh, and you don't like steak at all anyway. Did I miss something?

Just because you disagree with a company's latest decisions doesn't make you entitled to raging and complaining, especially not when you don't have all the facts. Even if you're from the game community, as you pointed out, Valve doesn't answer to you or any other player. They made the effort to add updates and correct their past games for a long time and seeing how the game community repays them and still doesn't trust them, I'd say they have more than good excuses to stop.

What corwin, defrag, and klein said. Do you only buy PC exclusive games? If the PC version is great, who the hell cares if it came out on consoles or was developed with a console in mind before the PC? Some games play better on consoles, some play better on PC. Which is which is totally subjective (see FPS keyboard/mouse vs. controller argument that's been going on since the dawn of time). All that matters is whether or not the game is good. L4D plays great on PC. (to me) The above argument holds about as much water as a spaghetti strainer.

I was initially angry because I felt that L4D2 would mean a stop in content for L4D, making L4D feel like a half complete game with a $50 price tag. But after awhile I realized that I've gotten more value out of my L4D pre-order purchase (ie: well over 200 hours of gameplay) than I have with most games, and playing more L4D last night with some friends completely eradicated any doubts I had about L4D2. I pre-ordered L4D, and I'll probably pre-order L4D2.

Quote from Corwin

I still don't see the point.

Quote from Seldoon182

I joined coz I think that L4D2 is clearly dedicated to consoles.

It means that If we don't react now who know if VALVe will continue. I mean Microsoft and commercial DLC on Xbox360? Okay I don't care but I don't want to be obliged to buy commercial DLC on Pc hidden as a new sequel.

The other point is, we didn’t sit down and say, “We need to ship a sequel next for next Christmas, what features do we need?” That wasn’t the way it happened, that’s not the way Valve works. What did happen was, the team sat down and said, “We’ve got a bunch of ideas of stuff we want to do.” People were really fired up when the game was finished, and there was a lot of feedback and ideas that came from watching people play – on the scale of millions of people, as opposed to hundreds of people that we went through during the playtesting sessions. So we put a lot of those things on the board and said, “What can we do quickly? What’s going to take more time? What’s the best way to get stuff out to customers?” And part of that plan ended up with L4D2, with things like changing the way the finales worked, introducing some new Survivors, giving new dialogue, telling more about the story, introducing new Specials. We said, “Wow, that makes for a nice sequel.” And then there was the stuff in the Survival Pack which makes for a nice DLC. And what we’d like to do is release a great game, provide lots of entertainment-as-a-service type of features, whether they’re technical updates or whether it’s the Survival Pack, and then also deliver more. - Doug Lombardi

That was suppose to be free! But instead of purpose that content time by time they decided to wait and make a commercial sequel and I'm very disappointed. This isn't what I'm use to see with VALVe. Go more far than my reply and click links and such.

Quote from Corwin

What would you care if even L4D was developped for consoles or not, you still didn't buy it. Saying you're against the sequel because it's console-oriented is like saying you don't like medium-rare steaks, oh, and you don't like steak at all anyway. Did I miss something?

Am I oblige to own the game to take part on debate and give my though !? And whereas you can say I'm not as enraged as you could say. I just feel disappointed with VALVe. That's all.

Quote

Am I oblige to own the game to take part on debate and give my though !? And whereas you can say I'm not as enraged as you could say. I just feel disappointed with VALVe. That's all.

No you're not, but you have to understand it kind of feels like you just want to throw oil on the fire. Since you can't feel cheated about buying the game, I would have thought you'd take a step back and watch the debate, rather than join a group of pissed-off gamers afraid to be left behind if they don't buy L4D2.

Quote from Corwin

No you're not, but you have to understand it kind of feels like you just want to throw oil on the fire. Since you can't feel cheated about buying the game, I would have thought you'd take a step back and watch the debate, rather than join a group of pissed-off gamers afraid to be left behind if they don't buy L4D2.

I don't. As I said its my 2 cents to say: "F**k no payable DLC content on pc!" And If join a group of "pissed-off gamers" is the only way to VALVe get this message I feel proud than a guy who just want to throw oil on the fire.

Quote from Skjalg

I'd expect better of you being European, claiming 80% of the market is consoles!

90% of all online gaming in the US is PC according to an NPD report last year, and L4D certainly counts in that group. It's far bigger in Europe, more and more the further east you go.

Altho I highly doubt those numbers (from both of you), then I think you two need to differentiate between online games and SP games. If you want to make SP games then you can't make em for the PC (exclusively) anymore unless you want your economy to get warezed to death.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20 ... nation.htm

I enjoy statistics and PC gaming. They go well together at times Ignore the negative overtones of the article (I dunno what's up with that) and focus on the facts listed.

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72% of Americans polled say they play videogames. 42% say they play games online.

90% of those who say they play games online, do so through the PC.

Here's some more interesting stuff: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11 ... thodology/

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/953/teens-v ... and-civics

Also nothing has ever in the history of mankind been warezed to death. The closest that's ever come is the music industry during the consumer backlash over the lawsuits and Sony BMG rootkit etc., but I've never once seen any proof of piracy hurting the real sales of a videogame. Most pirates aren't consumers, no matter what the situation. They're teenagers and "Information wants to be free" cyber hippies and people from third world countries buying bootlegs, not first world adults with cash to spend and a willingness to spend it on videogames but only if they can't pirate it.

Anyway, Left 4 Dead isn't a SP game and it's nowhere near as good if you can only play it offline. The bots can't even throw molotovs after all.

I'm not seeing the link here between L4D2 and the PC gamers default assumption that anything potentially bad happening to a game must be the consoles fault. TF2 and L4D1 both got console releases and console games support DLC (even if it is more complicated/expensive on the 360). Can we lay some groundwork for this argument?

I think that's something like L4D2 would be too much content for a DLC download on Xbox Live or something, I dunno. Personally, considering it has more content alone than all of L4D, I don't see why it needs to be DLC at all. All of what I've heard about the new stuff they're including sounds like a damn good deal to me.

I don’t think there are any limitations on the size of your PDLC. Fable 2 had some very large downloads and Deathsmiles has one that adds more content than the original game (albeit remixed existing content for the most part).

It does have some limitations, though. I remember the reason cited for the TF2 patches being late and consolidated is PDLC needs to be tested and approved by Microsoft before it can be put up, and that isn't exactly going to be free. Sony seem less strict about this stuff, for example the PS3 version of Unreal Whatever allows modification support while the 360 version does not. I imagine this is also why FFXIV is PC/PS3 exclusive.

Yes there are multiple limitations to the size your DLC can be on XBL. You need to pay extra if it's over the limit, and it's exponentially higher. Microsoft will let you get away with it if it's for a very big title (GTA) or obviously a 1st party title, but third parties need to negotiate hard. Prince of Persia DLC proved to be too big for a 5 bucks download for instance, MS wanted the DLC to be 10 bucks to compensate for the extra bandwidth used.

Given what has transpired so far for this sequel, the content could easily reach over 1.5 Gb, and that would probably make the DLC over 20 bucks.

I think it'd be even bigger than that, new environment means tons of new textures and props, all new models and textures for all the zombies for the setting and new gore system, plus all the other stuff. I would be surprised if L4D2's total size isn't bigger than L4D1 (not counting the included L4D1 content, at the very least the textures and models since they promised that L4D1 custom campaigns will work in L4D2).

Quote from Furyo

MS wanted the DLC to be 10 bucks to compensate for the extra bandwidth used.

These clowns ever heard of P2P?

M$ using P2P? yea right

P2P is sooo 1999, M$ act as if it never existed

1.New campaign for L4D1 to be available next month:

[Blocked Image: http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7416/crashcoursefinal02.jpg]

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And yes, that's Left 4 Dead ONE, last year's popular zombocalypse simulator, and not this year's "controversial" sequel. True to its word, Valve has announced details of an upcoming DLC campaign for the game, sending conspiratorial crybabies ("Left 4 Dead 2 is a cash-in and they'll never support Left 4 Dead 1") back to the drawing board. Though Left 4 Dead 2 is purported to last "much longer" as a platform, Valve clearly isn't ready to abandon the original.Targeted for this September, "Crash Course" is an entirely new campaign that "bridges the gap" between the end of the "No Mercy" campaign (think: rooftop helicopter evacuation) and the beginning of "Death Toll" (think: turnpike riddled with abandoned cars). The new campaign includes "new locations, new dialogue from the original cast, and an explosive finale," and it spreads the mayhem across a co-op campaign, survival maps, and a "streamlined version" of the Versus mode experience lasting 30 minutes.

2.Some L4D2 shots:

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let the bashing begin once again!

Quote from Gloglebag

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