Game industry questionmarks

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I have decided that I really want to aim at getting into the game industry. But to be honest, I don't know much about it or how it works.

so you make decisions without having thought it through? tough guy! you are still young and you shouldn't be to focused on this one perspective. try things out! this means: for example do an internship in a games company near you. after that you made your own experiences and you can be more sure of what you think you want to do.

a personal advice and many people would share this one with me (friechamp?) is: get at least a bachelor of art/science degree and then start working full time. having been to a university teaches you many different skills (not only those that are part of the topic of your studies). additionally you can evolve in different directions and get a broader view on things. possible employers see that you have accomplished something, that sure wasn't easy to get. saying "i made a mod" is completely different to saying "i finished my bachelor degree in time and with good results".

after having finished a university level you will be in your mid 20s and be way more grown up. as i can speak for my self: "getting into the game industry" isn't hard at all. take your time. make up a good portfolio. the rest will be sending emails and doing some interviews.

Get: The Hows and Whys of The Games Industry by Sjoerd de Jong (Hourences), apply for an internship at all random studios in Stockholm (there are quite a few), you don't have to bad chances, with a nice map in the portfolio. Learn modelling and texturing (or at least basic knowledge in 3Ds Max and Photoshop). You can also pick up the course of studies Nurb (?) and the guys from Decadence-Mod were/are in ( http://dsu.iki.his.se/web/ ).

i think you have your heart in the right place and you will do just fine !

cant say if going to a university and getting a degree will help you get the foot in the door i don't have a degree and the people aroudn me in my field that do can not do MORE than me or are more SKILLED than me so what ever a university teaches you might not directly effect your level-design work but MIGHT impress an employer i don't know. i guess for programmers on the other hand a degree is definitely a seal of quality and a definite requirement ! however going to a university will surely be a great social experience for you ... something that i unfortunately missed out on.

there is many struggling start up companys that are only capable of existing because they toss intern on the fire id say stay away frm those people.

id rather try to pull of an independent game all on your own. or with 1 or 2 like minded people.

Quote from hessi

a personal advice and many people would share this one with me (friechamp?) is: get at least a bachelor of art/science degree and then start working full time. having been to a university teaches you many different skills (not only those that are part of the topic of your studies). additionally you can evolve in different directions and get a broader view on things. possible employers see that you have accomplished something, that sure wasn't easy to get. saying "i made a mod" is completely different to saying "i finished my bachelor degree in time and with good results".

I've come to learn that "what is the best way for me to break into the industry?" and "what is the best for me?" are two entirely different questions. If you look for answers to the former, there are plenty of threads covering the subject and many people here are willing to help, but the later is a question that you will have to answer yourself (just don't forget about it)

so very zen, frie

Warby and Hessi shows the two sides of this argument, and quite possibly the crossroads which you are standing before you now.

Option A, Spend 3 years on an education and create your safety net. (In 10 years, can you honestly say you want to make games?)

Option B, Spend all your free time, even more than you would spend at a school or getting a university degree, to get the skills you need to get a secure job at a games company. (Assuming you are not aspiring to become a prop modeler for life). Now you might think that sounds negative, but its not, because you probably love what your doing so spending a lot of time on it wont be that bad

Me and Hessi both chose Option A, Friechamp initally chose Option B but then changed his mind after a year or so (I think?) and went back to option A. While Warby got a point that his work is in no way inferior to the ones with education, then I believe that this mindset is shortsighted and that it will backfire heavily if you ever grow tired of your current situation and want to move onto something else.

Your levels look real good! Whats the big deal just apply for some good game developers already

I joined a professional studio at the age of 19! on a AAA title

As for the divide between art and level design ... do you prefer making a level look pretty or play well? do you prefer multiplayer or single player? do you like writing level design documents? do you only want to work on shooters or do you have a wide area of knowledge?

Anyway you appear to have a good head and heart like warby said so you will be just fine

Oh and SOOOOOOO many developers came from a background like yours so they can relate to it, but take any job your offered at the start. Getting in can be tricky but once your there you can start to be picky.

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Friechamp initally chose Option B but then changed his mind after a year or so (I think?) and went back to option A.

Make that 3 years. No regrets though, I had a blast and that experience is still helping me today (see internship at Nintendo), point is that I'm studying now. Wrapping up a 40 pages paper on Nintendo and its competitors for uni tomorrow by the way. That means I won't be sober for the next 2 weeks

Yeah have a look at my book: http://hourences.com/book/book2about.htm

It talks through the pros and cons of this industry, ways to get in, schools, mods, etc. All kinds of information and advice basically that will help you make a decision and get a better view on how this industry.

I am not Swedish but I do live here. I have also been teaching occasionally in The Garden, level design education, and Future Games, game design in general. I think there are roughly 20 people a year who would like to become a level designer in Sweden, and there are absolutely not 20 positions available a year in Sweden. So is it difficult to get in? Yeah it kind of is but you also just have to be lucky, and good. I think it is about 50 percent luck (right guy, right time, right place), and 50 percent skill. Work really hard and stick to it. It took me 2-3 years of making custom levels before I got a job. I already made about 15-20 entire levels when I was hired. To go to school or not is a difficult question. It probably is a good idea to go to one though. Just as a backup. You can always apply to studios while you are in school. If you do happen to get hired, hey all the better and you can just quit school. If you don't, you still got your education.

The Garden will stop next year I believe, but Future Games continues. You should have a look at it, may be interesting. You should also be aware that all those people currently attending those courses will also soon look for a job or an internship. They will take whatever positions there are available.

Is it low pay and unstable? Yeah it could be, but you also have studios that are stable and pay decently. It depends where you end up. If you end up at a small start up studio you are much more likely to end up with unpleasant situations. On the other hand do not underestimate small companies and teams. They will give you a lot more creative freedom usually which is also worth something. You could go work for Dice for example, but if you're just a robot in between 300 other developers it's not very fun really, even if they do pay nicely and even if the job is stable (kind of).

I think you should continue with everything you're doing. Try to do as much as possible, and get into as much as possible. Have a go at Scripting in source, but also at scripting with for example Lua and Kismet. Learn basic 3D modeling. Learn some basic level Photoshop. Learn something other than Source. Do singleplay and multiplay. And just make damn good levels.

Quote from Hourences

To go to school or not is a difficult question. It probably is a good idea to go to one though. Just as a backup. You can always apply to studios while you are in school. If you do happen to get hired, hey all the better and you can just quit school. If you don't, you still got your education.

That's exactly what I did and I can only recommend it. I still want to resume my education one day though.

I haven't a ton to add, these guys have it covered pretty well. All I can say is keep making things. Make maps. Learn a modeling package. And if you have already, crack open another and figure that out too. Just keep doing stuff, don't lax in producing things even if they're shit and don't work out in the end, you'll always have a better overall understanding of the work regardless if it's successful or not.

It's easy to get frustrated doing this stuff (for me anyway). I have far more failed projects and piles of shit than proper, finished work. But if you find yourself constantly gravitating back to it, it's probably a good sign.

You can try to study one of the game related courses at Skövde University. A couple guys from my company went there and some mapcore members.

It's true that a lot of people want to become level designers and only a part of them ultimately get a job. But this shouldnt demotivate you. You have great control over your own chances. Just work really hard on your portfolio. If you study in that direction dont only do course stuff but also spent your freetime on additional stuff like custom maps or mods. This extra work and the experience that you get from it makes the difference between you and the other students who rather like to party. Also learn how to do singleplayer maps. mp maps are nice and can give you an job but if you have some nice sp maps/mods in your portfolio your chances will be even bigger.

You canalso try to do an internship. The dense of studios in and around stockholm is quite good.

Payment is not horrible for swedish standarts. Its somewhere in the middle or slightly above what people earn in this country in average. Of course you will not get rich as a level designer.

I would personally do a degree if you can. Why? Because I had loads of free time at university. I used the time to learn more level design, modelling, scripting and some texturing in addition to graduating my programming course. I wasn't amazing at any particular thing (I learned to do these things because they interested me!) but the point is that I had the time to do it all, plus I have a degree to fall back on. If you do a games-related degree, tread very carefully, though. Make sure the course is reputable and has a high number of graduates that enter the industry.

Given enough time and dedication, anyone with talent can become good enough to secure a job in my opinion. Just do what Erratic, Hourences & co. advised -- make stuff. Make lots of stuff. It doesn't matter if you throw some of it away or you don't finish everything or it's not a success, just make it, then make even more. Jeff Atwood wrote a particularly good article about why quantity is so important. IMO it applies to near enough every field.

Also, it's worth looking into modding. You learn a lot about collaborating with others, it may offer some external pressure to commit and you will also make some good contacts for the future

Good luck!

Being one to keep close ties with industry recruiters as I try and place more and more of my friends in these tough times, I can promise you they all agree it's never been tougher for entry level applicants. So this will be my only addition to this thread that covers it all already: Yes try and get a degree. You absolutely never know what may come years down the road. And a degree helps you every day in ways you don't imagine when studying.

Examples?

A friend of mine is currently applying for permanent residency status in Canada (not Kleineh, guys ) and he's now in his late 30s. His english isn't so good. Guess what? All these things add up as points on a government grid that declares him eligible or not. And now he's not certain to get it because he waited that long before applying. Having a degree would make him a certain candidate.

You can talk to your banker about that, but trust me he'll feel a lot better giving you a loan knowing you have studied and can always resort to having another job if things get tough.

Insurances? Same thing.

So yes plan for your future. Absolutely do. You may be as lucky as some of us here (me included) and land a job on your first interview after having done a single map in a large corporation where jobs are safe, but you could just as well work your way through tons of hurdles for years to come. And that's not talent specific, it's the luck part others have written about. Be on the safe side, these days it's not only a "nice thing to have" I consider it mandatory.

With that said, I feel like wishing you the best of luck because I know from your first post you are level-headed and yes your heart is indeed in the right place. You are currently considering and pondering all the aspects of that decision, and that's a lot more than what I can say for so many enthusiasts out there.

^^^^^ what he said.

Quote from Furyo

A friend of mine is currently applying for permanent residency status in Canada (not Kleineh, guys ) and he's now in his late 30s. His english isn't so good. Guess what? All these things add up as points on a government grid that declares him eligible or not. And now he's not certain to get it because he waited that long before applying. Having a degree would make him a certain candidate.

slightly off-topic, but... is he in Quebec? Cause then he should not be afraid about english it doesnt really matter that much for quebec... (send me a steam message or something as response, dont wanna derail this tread)

Yes he's at Ubi montreal. I'll pass that along.

Back to topic

Still the fact is - if your good at what you do, you will find work. If you are not good and have a qualification you will not. If your good and have a qualification you will. Yes i'm an optimist

All you have to do is decide if you're willing to study for 3 years or go for it now I kind of miss not going to Uni/College just because of the social scene.

Never underestimate modding, even if the mod dies chances are you will meet lots of interesting people many of who are in the industry or will be soon. I never did a game design degree but in most cases you don't get the same kind of FREE exposure. When it comes to the arts industries the age old "it's who you know not what you know" really is true ... at least when it comes to breaking in to the industry.

It can be a good idea (IMO) to study something completely different that interests you. I am on a HND in Media Production and while it’s not an area I want to get into at the moment I love the production and post production of films, so its showed me I might like to make Documentaries at some point in my life. There are always the core skills like working in a team that you will get on most courses too.

I also only go three days a week so that leaves 4 to work on levels. Although I was very lazy for the first part of the year but getting a good few hours in each day I am off now.