Prince of Persia soon to come out...

    Long time lurker, first time poster. Had to register to offer a counter to Warby's opinions (love your maps, dont hate me k?)

    I'm only about 40-50% through, so.. level of validity may vary?

    I love the free roaming. I've never hit a loading screen, except when teleporting, which is awesome. Even in other 'open world' games I will hit a loading screen in the middle of gameplay that ruins any semblence of immersion.

    Combat is, well... yeah. It seems like they downplayed the combat for this game, and made it more traversal/exploration based, so I can kinda be ok with the relative weakness of it. In spite of that, the combos are really cinematic and there seems to be tons of variation. Of course, once you find a winning combo there's not much incentive to try new stuff out rather than to use the new 'iwin' combo each time.

    Grinding is a bit unfair. In the achievements (360 version...) there's one for collecting 1001 light seeds. You only need less than 500 to open up all the areas in the game. When I'm going through areas I've healed, I end up getting about 60-70% of the seeds in the area without even really trying to get the out of the way ones. Needing to revisit an area when you get a new power just to collect the last 3 or 4 seeds is kind of annoying, especially when trying to remember just exactly where that last setup was at.

    360 version has a couple of achievements for exploration. Highest/lowest points of the game both give achievements. I haven't found either.

    I kinda like the dialogue actually. It's giving me some sense of connection with the characters, rather than them being silent the entire time. The story is cliche, but whatever... how many times have we all saved the world and/or princess from inevitable destruction in the last 20 years of gaming?

    Agree with the jump pads, but only because it's too over the top for me.

    Flying....... I *just* unlocked flying. After doing the little intro area when unlocking it, I went Wave goodbye to immersion...

    The corrupted areas ARE dark and murky and look ugly. They're CORRUPTED. They're SUPPOSED to look 10 times less good than when they are healed. (Or, I'm assuming they should be...) It all makes sense to me.....

    Elika teleporting me back has always been to the previous flat platform. I've never had any issues with this except in one area that had a TON of wall run/jump pad sequences with no flat platforms between them so you had to redo like 3 minutes of a movement path before getting to that psuedo checkpoint. In spite of that, the game clues you in when you need to use Elika to do the double jump thing, and the movement paths aren't overly difficult so I never find myself redoing an area more than once or twice.

    I can understand why they needed Elika on the crank to operate it. The whole synergy/couple thing. For the cranks, up = push, down = pull. As someone who's worked on games with cranks, I LOVE that it isnt tied to camera direction and this simple to use.

    Camera not being able to be rotated behind you IS bothersome, BUT, in the places where you need to do a backjump, the camera has always pulled out and shown me that I need to do a wall jump. I LOVE the camera system in this game. It's simple, shows you where you need to go 80% of the time, it automatically changes when you change direction of where you're jumping to when in a movement path, and the only time when I needed to manually adjust the camera is when I'm running around on flat platforms. LOVE THE CAMERA

    I never had problems with those extension rings. Since all the movement is automated, you're not really pressing the button to run on the wall, you're pressing the jump button to get to the wall. Hitting the ring just extends the movement. I dunno, it took some slight getting used to in the beginning of the game, and I'm not having any problem with it anymore.

    Shadows are weird. They DON'T need outlines. Sometimes Elika has a worse shadow than the prince. Like, 8 bit jaggy bad shadow. Other times, it's not as bad. No idea what's up with that.

    Agree on the lack of enemies, or at least, different tactics of the same enemies. They all behave the same, except some go into their whole stance bit, but even then... Combat is formulaic, unless you're trying to find out new combos. Reinforces my theory of them basing this game not on combat but exploration and traversal.

    I love the compass sparkly thing. Never had it go through walls, floors, or led me to an area that I didn't have set as the target on the map. Go punch the ubi QA guys. I hardly ever have to use this anyway, except when reaching junctions so I know generally which way to go.

    For all the positives, agree. Whatever cloth tech you're using STILL causes it to pass through the character model sometimes. As far as I can tell, this has always happened in past PoP games. But it is still tons better than previous games.

    All in all, thoroughly LOVING the game. Just hoping the last power I unlock isn't so... out there, as flying is.

    Quote from Furyo

    Finding interesting things to do for a hardcore gamer in a "everyone should be able to play and finish the game" game is challenging. (

    It's funny how different Ubisoft and Valve try to achieve that same goal

    I didn't really like the last gen PoP trilogy because it was annoying killing those samey sand pirate dudes every two minutes breaking up the actual interesting stuff. Would I like this new game?

    Quote from Furyo

    but you need to realize how different each company's target consumer really is....

    This has always been a mystery to me. I mean, it has to be the biggest false hood going, the fact that you can't in any way know who's going to play your game. You can throw data around, but in the end there's no real way of telling. It all seems like such a trifle.

    There are many ways publishers get to know who plays their game, and what sorts of things they do in it. Microsoft at least will send publishers all sorts of info about the game, kinda like what Steam does, only I believe even more detailed.

    What I meant though is that if you were to compare both companies latest games, I have a feeling both targeted global customers, but with very different selection criteria. I couldn't say that Left 4 Dead is targeting "anyone aged X to Y in a family household, as a family game". I'm not even saying this is what we implicitly were targeting for this game, but there is no denying PoP is the family friendly of these two games. As such I think the target was just a lot broader than that of L4D, or Valve games in general.

    Well I just finished it. I would have liked more puzzles... that didn't involve cranks.

    Most of the bad reviews I read or people I talked to that didn't like it all started off the same "So I beat the game in two days..."

    When you have a 12 hour game, and you're cramming that all in 2 days, you're going to hella notice the repetitive aspects of it. It was the same way for Assassins Creed. People either loved it or hated it. There didn't seem to be much of a middle ground.

    Not that playing a game slower will negate any of your opinions, but personally I was able to enjoy this game a lot more because I wasn't playing to get to the end.

    Regarding level design (seeing as thats what this community is about) I really liked The Vale and City of Light. Loved the whole quasi steam punk technology mixed with the natural trees and waterfalls in Vale. This was my favorite area. Parts of City of Light are great too, especially when you get those wide vistas of a huge cityscape and then realize just how massive this cave has to be.

    Least favorite was the Ruined Citadel. Long plate sequences that had flying in it ruined it for me. I hate the flying... Speaking of which, the princes cape hangs straight down during flying sequences... no flapping in the wind.. No sense of speed.. Kinda

    In general, the visual language was good, I never was lost or didn't know how to get through an area. Most of the structures seemed (oddly) believably functional.

    Quote from Erratic

    This has always been a mystery to me. I mean, it has to be the biggest false hood going, the fact that you can't in any way know who's going to play your game. You can throw data around, but in the end there's no real way of telling. It all seems like such a trifle.

    So you are saying nobody can tell what audience is going to play "My pony farm" and what consumers "Left4Dead"? Of course a certain grade of guessing is always involved, but you can usually get a pretty clear picture and for the tough ones, there is always a plethora of instruments from market research to choose from.

    Quote from Furyo

    There are many ways publishers get to know who plays their game, and what sorts of things they do in it. Microsoft at least will send publishers all sorts of info about the game, kinda like what Steam does, only I believe even more detailed.What I meant though is that if you were to compare both companies latest games, I have a feeling both targeted global customers, but with very different selection criteria. I couldn't say that Left 4 Dead is targeting "anyone aged X to Y in a family household, as a family game". I'm not even saying this is what we implicitly were targeting for this game, but there is no denying PoP is the family friendly of these two games. As such I think the target was just a lot broader than that of L4D, or Valve games in general.

    Was PoP really aimed at being a family game? Because the Prince kinda looks like a hobo. Or at least, a dirty pirate.

    Quote from OhSnap

    Least favorite was the Ruined Citadel. Long plate sequences that had flying in it ruined it for me. I hate the flying... Speaking of which, the princes cape hangs straight down during flying sequences... no flapping in the wind.. No sense of speed.. Kinda

    Totally agree with you there, I think the powers in general are totally failed, except for the dash sequences. The flying gives nothing except frustration, and grapple and rebound are two exactly identical purposes with different animations. Utter failing there, which believe it or not all level designers pointed out.

    Quote

    Was PoP really aimed at being a family game? Because the Prince kinda looks like a hobo. Or at least, a dirty pirate.

    Of course the game is meant to be family friendly. Except for the odd animation, there is rarely a sense of violence in the game, no blood, the two main characters are written so young boys and girls can directly relate to them, and the game as a whole is designed so parents don't fear letting their children play it, and may enjoy it themselves too.

    i actually like the way you know what's wrong with the game furyo. but tell me why, if so many people were against it that those decisions were still taken? who has the responsibility for this sort of thing?

    Quote from Sentura

    i actually like the way you know what's wrong with the game furyo. but tell me why, if so many people were against it that those decisions were still taken? who has the responsibility for this sort of thing?

    the suits man! Those god damn suits... when will they learn!?

    yeah its all a matter of authority at my current ioi project there is a hand full of mini features and tweaks i have been lobbying for for almost 2 years that are just not happening but would only take like an hour to implement and vastly improve the game if the authority would ok it.

    one of the main reasons why i want to go all out indie again ...

    Quote from Warby

    yeah its all a matter of authority at my current ioi project there is a hand full of mini features and tweaks i have been lobbying for for almost 2 years that are just not happening but would only take like an hour to implement and vastly improve the game if the authority would ok it.one of the main reasons why i want to go all out indie again ...

    hearing this makes me think of the company structure of valve... because it's the complete opposite. no titles and as long as you have the backing of a good argument, you can get anything inside the game. perhaps it's a key to success..

    Quote from Furyo

    Of course the game is meant to be family friendly. Except for the odd animation, there is rarely a sense of violence in the game, no blood, the two main characters are written so young boys and girls can directly relate to them, and the game as a whole is designed so parents don't fear letting their children play it, and may enjoy it themselves too.

    It was a joke

    Man, though, I feel sorry for gamers growing up now. When I grew up I had awesome shit like Shadowrun and Sonic and bowling on the Atari and later on Crash Bandicoot and Spyro and Doom and Deus Ex. My formative years were so badass.

    Edit: there's still Sonic and Crash and Spyro, kinda. They all just suck so fucking badly now.

    Edit: Not trying to talk down about Prince of Persia specifically, though. I know I wouldn't have the patience for it as a kid, though. What attracted me to gaming was the freedom of it, to explore, to do what I want. PoP is about following a set path to the tee, and failure is diverging from it.

    Quote

    ":afwqxvdo]

    the suits man! Those god damn suits... when will they learn!?

    The so called suits are way too often described as the perfect scapegoat. In this case, it never was the suits, much more the job titles and lack of communication from department to department. Many were very keen on getting feedback and working hand in hand with the rest, but the opposite was also true in certain cases with certain suggestions just being thrown to the dumpster or simply never heard because they came from someone or a department whose trade isn't to handle these things. Or from lack of time, redoing certain things would have impacted a lot more than just that one thing.

    This is where the Cabal system shines to me, you playtest early and frequently, and everyone participates and is encouraged to provide solutions. The thing is, while it works for Valve, there aren't too many companies that would thrive using this method too. It takes a lot of time to change the mentality of a workplace, and hiring the right people at the right time is a key part in that, something larger companies simply cannot afford.

    This criticism can be made across the board in many different companies and industries. It's nothing new under the sun at all.

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