Wrath of the Lich King Cinematic

Quote from Algor

Absolute bullshit as in given great gameplay, one can forgive the lack of cutting edge visuals? Heh...

i could forgive the game if it indeed had good or even great gameplay. but tell me, do you think that "fetch x items from y mobs to person z" quests on repeat equal good gameplay? please. i could rephrase the above crysis statement to a portal statement, or any other game with decent gameplay. don't mistake a succesful product for a good game.

The WoW target audience is casual gamers with dated computers, and half of its players are in China at cybercafés who probably aren’t at the bleeding-edge in terms of kit. Its cartoon style is a clever move on behalf of the developers because in ten years it’ll still have a certain twee charm to it, whereas the wave of titles with realistic graphics, like AoC, will quickly deteriorate into ass as new technology comes out. While patching new graphical features in is an option, you’re just doing to upset the majority of your customer base when they can’t take advantage of it.

It also seems a bit frivolous to deride WoW based on fetch quests or level grind because they are staples to the genre. WoW has handled questing and levelling better than anyone else out there. Being able to quest all the way to maximum level had never been done before, as was having a maximum level you could reach in less than 3 months if you didn't go to the toilet in your chair.

Given a basic love for the MMO genre the problems with WoW have occurred with its shift toward being a PvP-centric game with PvE-centric classes and rules, dumbing down raids, throwing in reputation bars instead of content, and lack of direct feedback to its players.

Yeah, Blizzard's cinematics were always top notch, even back in the SC and WC2 days, which I can remember.

Quote from Taylor

The WoW target audience is casual gamers with dated computers, and half of its players are in China at cybercafés who probably aren’t at the bleeding-edge in terms of kit. Its cartoon style is a clever move on behalf of the developers because in ten years it’ll still have a certain twee charm to it, whereas the wave of titles with realistic graphics, like AoC, will quickly deteriorate into ass as new technology comes out. While patching new graphical features in is an option, you’re just doing to upset the majority of your customer base when they can’t take advantage of it.It also seems a bit frivolous to deride WoW based on fetch quests or level grind because they are staples to the genre. WoW has handled questing and levelling better than anyone else out there. Being able to quest all the way to maximum level had never been done before, as was having a maximum level you could reach in less than 3 months if you didn't go to the toilet in your chair.

Given a basic love for the MMO genre the problems with WoW have occurred with its shift toward being a PvP-centric game with PvE-centric classes and rules, dumbing down raids, throwing in reputation bars instead of content, and lack of direct feedback to its players.

while the first paragraph makes sense, it is completely beside the point. i know what audience wow targets and why the graphics are as they are, just don't come tell me it looks beautiful when comparing to other games. again, the same with gameplay.

as for the second paragraph: either you aren't being serious or you haven't tried anything else but wow within the genre. i know at least one or two mmos that came before wow and handled quests, level and items better in addition to having endgame content that would last longer than any pve raid in wow. wow's strength comes in that it is simplified and dumbed down so that everyone can use it; plus having a strong reputation and excellent PR from the company's side. no other company has done this within the mmo genre; thus letting blizzard have the benefit of the first go at the major population. don't get me wrong, it is a succesful product, but it was never a good game.

This is geting rather exciting, who will win this argument? Sentura aggressively tackles each of Taylor's bullet points, one by one. On the other hand Taylor used the word "frivolous" which makes him a winner in my book! Can't we all agree there are multiple 'good' MMOs out there? Will Sentura's daring move make him victorious or will the WOW players tear him into pieces? I can't look!

OH HELLOS INTERNETS WE INSTALLED SOME WOW'S IN YOUR DIABLO'S

Quote from FrieChamp

This is geting rather exciting, who will win this argument? Sentura aggressively tackles each of Taylor's bullet points, one by one. On the other hand Taylor used the word "frivolous" which makes him a winner in my book! Can't we all agree there are multiple 'good' MMOs out there? Will Sentura's daring move make him victorious or will the WOW players tear him into pieces? I can't look!

haha, brilliant! they should make an internets argument game with a commentator!

Quote from Sentura

while the first paragraph makes sense, it is completely beside the point. i know what audience wow targets and why the graphics are as they are, just don't come tell me it looks beautiful when comparing to other games. again, the same with gameplay.

I never implied otherwise, this paragraph was for clarity more than anything else.

Quote from Sentura

as for the second paragraph: either you aren't being serious or you haven't tried anything else but wow within the genre. i know at least one or two mmos that came before wow and handled quests, level and items better in addition to having endgame content that would last longer than any pve raid in wow.

This is rather vague, can you name the games that handle these aspects better and what this end-game content is? It's ultimately subjective, but I’m curious.

And yes, I have experience with other MMO’s, though I remember you stating elsewhere you've never played WoW?

Quote from Sentura

wow's strength comes in that it is simplified and dumbed down so that everyone can use it; plus having a strong reputation and excellent PR from the company's side. no other company has done this within the mmo genre; thus letting blizzard have the benefit of the first go at the major population.

I completely agree here on every point, but I don’t think I’ve stated anything to the contrary.

Hahahaha, after discussing the cinematic with Sentura over MSN I come here and read the exact same discussion.

Since I play WoW I side with Taylor

Quote from Sentura

Absolute bullshit as in given great gameplay, one can forgive the lack of cutting edge visuals? Heh...

i could forgive the game if it indeed had good or even great gameplay. but tell me, do you think that "fetch x items from y mobs to person z" quests on repeat equal good gameplay? please. i could rephrase the above crysis statement to a portal statement, or any other game with decent gameplay. don't mistake a succesful product for a good game.

The endgame content is some of the most well designed gameplay in any game, ever. Obviously the earlier stuff of killing x number of enemies to complete a quest is not going to impress much of anyone, but they have learned a ton and their new starting quests for the Death Knight or new areas in general seem to show that.

Quote from Skjalg

Since I play WoW I side with Taylor

Heh, though I did go on a mini-rant about how the game has devolved and don't play it anymore...

Yeah but that doesn't help, not everyone wants to play the new races, and for sure, I'm sick of WoW, after getting a billion kill\collect 5-60 of one item. It's boring.

PvP is /yawn

Quote from Seldoon182

Did u try PvP?

Yeah both in BG and raids. But that sucks, why not just play TF2 or any random team deathmatch game then? First off you only have to install and play normal games compared to the endless grinding and search for awesome PVP loot that is WoW.And no, I don't have any lvl 70 characters with ultra epics to make me unstopable cause I don't want to spend 1000 hours or $400 to be able to actually do some good.

Quote from 2d-chris

Blizzard rock so hard at making CG stuff

Unfortunately, for me It's just that.

i disagree on the topic of good gameplay, since i know that quests in general won't keep me occupied for long before getting bored. when i think about good gameplay, i think of something that keeps me rooted to the seat; not because of addiction, but because of sheer fun and immersion. not every game nowadays actually has that, though, and certainly not a game like wow. to put it in metaphors, wow is like a tunnel you walk for a long time to approach the light. just when you're about to reach the end, a new expansion comes out that sends the end a tunnel's length further ahead. rinse and repeat.

as for the mystery to whether i have or haven't played wow. it's true that i have never laid my hands on the game (and never will), but i have watched people play it through more or less the whole game (low, mid high levels), in addition to having played some 4-5ish mmos myself. everything wow does, i've seen other, seperate games that do better.

Quote from Seldoon182

Did u try PvP?

RNG.

Somehow Sentura, I believe that if you ever make your own game, it won't be a big success... You'll get a few fans that absolutely adores the game and thinks its the best shit ever created, but most people won't understand it.

You need to dumb yourself down a little and understand the dimwitted populaces of the gaming world

have you been reading that book i recommended you?

it should also be noted that i consider what you said some of the greatest flattery anyone could ever receive. i took a liberty, as you can see below.