RAGE

    Quote from Skjalg

    None of the other id software games had "press enter to start", nor buggy menus where the mouse will vanish because it incorrectly assumes that I'm using the 360 controller that ive plugged in. This is all because the game was made for consoles, then adapted for the mouse/keyboard.I can fully understand the hate that alot of people feel because consoles really are ruining parts of what makes pc gaming so awesome (imo the best controller is the mouse/keyboard). Namely that everything now are being built FOR the game pad instead of FOR the mouse/keyboard). It basically means that if you are using a controller you get the INTENDED experience, whereas if you are using second ass shit like the mouse/keyboard you only get a slap-on-duct-taped-hacked experience. Personally I've always had a console, but I prefer the mouse/keyboard style gaming a lot more. Whenever I play rage I get the feeling that he menus and the like would be a lot better if they had not been built to work with consoles (because that is a severe limitation, and its a limitation that really limits the potential of the mouse/keyboard use.

    yes, this is fully understood by everyone, this is now how it is. pc gaming is the second class choice for 75% of the gaming population and therefore games will not be tailored for that audience. i have only had some slight issues with the inventory system, equipping weapons and quick switching between weapons, it's a bit unexplained and badly implemented, but what are they going to do, have 2 different submissions, one for console and one for pc?

    things have changed a lot since we first started playing pc games, people moved on and now consoles are the dominant market. it's perfectly understandable why that is the case as well. how many people are having problems with the pc version of rage, versus no-one ewxperiencing these problems on consoles, because they have a closed system that can be fully exploited by the developer?

    personally, i'd love to make pc-only games and have huge amounts of memory and performance to play with, who wouldn't? but to expect developers to ignore the market, in a "financial crisis", and to cater to the smaller group of players is pretty naive and it gets boring to hear it all the time.

    what would you prefer the solution to be, multiple submissions and versions of a game for different platforms? game development is pretty obese and untidy as it is, i can't even imagine what kind of problems would come from doing that.

    interestingly enough i think a lot of what they did could be achieved with good meshes and a shitload of decals. which is essentially what they have done, but then baked it all into megatextures. maybe i am missing the point somewhat but there's not a great deal of actual content, it's just reused well and covered in decals.

    if someone could write a decal system that wasn't a fucking hog then this kinda detail would be pretty easy to achieve and improve upon. still not 100% convinced by megatextures

    Quote from Rick_D

    as for "consoles". you guys are retarded. devs would love to build for a sytem that has obscene hardware and can crank up the settings to MAXIMUMOVERDRIVE. but look at half-life 2, they had a shitload of backwards compatibility right from the start, they still supported dx7 until a couple of years ago. you really think devs can afford to just say "fuck you consoles" and stay in business?

    It's working out ok for blizzard

    well said rick. i can understand that people aren't happy with the console ports, and that there is much that could be done to help this out, but i don't see it happening unless more people start playing PC games. or maybe, little by little, pc ports will get better.

    Quote from Jetsetlemming

    It's working out ok for blizzard

    it's working out for blizzard because blizzard made a game that could be used on PCs with low hardware and a wide range of player profiles, ranging from hardcore to very casual. not every game can be like that, and certainly not every game can do it to such a successful degree. just look at how many that have tried and failed. this is why world of warcraft is a great product, and why it will continue to thrive for many more years.

    Quote from Jetsetlemming

    It's working out ok for blizzard

    Sort of, Diablo III will be on consoles, Starcraft, Diablo I, Warcraft I, and Warcraft II were all on consoles.

    Also lets not forget that World of Warcraft probably generates/generated enough income to fund any project the company wanted to do.

    Oh and there's the whole Starcraft Korean phenomenon, that I don't think every developer can hope to duplicate.

    Quote from Rick_D

    interestingly enough i think a lot of what they did could be achieved with good meshes and a shitload of decals. which is essentially what they have done, but then baked it all into megatextures. maybe i am missing the point somewhat but there's not a great deal of actual content, it's just reused well and covered in decals.if someone could write a decal system that wasn't a fucking hog then this kinda detail would be pretty easy to achieve and improve upon. still not 100% convinced by megatextures

    But isnt that essentially what megatextures is; it is a decal system that is not a fucking hog. What you're saying is essentially true, because if you were to slap 10 or 20 decals on top of each other (like is done in rage), then that would be a memory hog deluxe because of all the blending going on. Megatextures basically just generates a premade texture for you with all of those slapped together and then uses that. Its not really that advanced once you think about it.

    On a side note; after the patch I set the texture memory thing to high and now theres no texture popping and the game runs so smooth and is a blast to play

    Oh trust me... even blizzard will give in to consoles very very soon. They will be stupid not to release Titan for consoles. And I might be mistaken but I read somewhere that they were planning a release of D3 for consoles. And tbh, I can't blame them.

    Latest patch made it work a lot better, way less texture pop in, still silky smooth frame rate even with everything cranked to the max. Still doesn't change the fact that everything looks extremely blurry up close, but overall then it doesn't bother me that much, looks great in general. Got to Wellsprings and did a bunch of stuff there, really liking the game so far, even if it is a linear Fallout

    Also regarding decals n shit, that's what I've been saying all along. In the end then I'm sure you can make brilliant use of this tech and really make everything look unique, but in the matter of Rage then I'm pretty sure they could get fairly close to where they are with decals and some clever texture blending.

    The point isn't PC exclusivity, it's not treating computers as some retard box afterthought with no effort put into it. Look at Popcap. All of their games are on all platforms in existence, and yet I've never played a Popcap game on PC that had any issues at all, control-wise or technical shit. I don't mind at all spreading shit about, I'm pretty much pro spreading shit about. I just don't like it when the PC version of a game is a pile of shit with no thought put into the controls and the mouse poorly emulating a thumb stick and a "You're a pirate fuck off you terrible person (but give us sixty dollars for this pile of dogshit)" Ubisoft-esque attitude. I don't care what teeny tiny little percentage you pull out of your ass to characterize PC gaming and its market share, if the version's worth releasing at all, then put some fucking effort into it and make sure it actually plays well. If you're making RE4 PC, don't even bother releasing that bullshit. The PC doesn't have a problem of too few games, it's too many shitty no effort games that turn people off from the platform, like Rage did for a bunch of AMD users.

    Despite all the performance issues GTA4 had on release because it was designed for better processors than were typical on PCs back then (heh consoles ruining things), design-wise the game played absolutely perfectly with keyboard and mouse, and had tons of video options and tweaks so you could make it run on your budget dual core (but it'd look pretty assy for it), and I never had it crash or bug out for me playing through roughly half of the normal campaign and Ballad of Gay Tony each.

    they released the pc version, what, 6 months after the console version?

    would you prefer all games had an extra 6 months in dev for the pc version?

    I believe that Mario guy had a relevant quote to that. Something about better late and good than early and shit. Personally, I'd prefer every developer treat the PC like Valve or Popcap or Blizzard does, but I'm more willing to wait than put up with how Rage behaved on my Radeon-equipped PC. There really is no such problem as "too few games", for anyone, or any platform (except 3DS I guess ). I don't need to play Rage. I don't want to play Rage if Rage is gonna play like it did.

    Also related to Rockstar: Judging by their statements and how they're bringing out LA Noire on PC, it looks like, if I read between the lines, like they totally were making a Red Dead Redemption PC version, but the console versions of that game were already buggy and weird, and they couldn't get it working on PC, so they cancelled the port. Lamentable, but better than releasing just one more turd nobody will like onto the market.

    jetset lemming, you can't compare popcap games to everything else. they're small scale games that will run on pretty much any computer because they don't need much processing power to function. when you're dealing with complex graphics and AI in large numbers you'll have to look at things differently. a console is a standardized machine. it means it will run on every machine just the same, so developers can focus on just one type of setting, rather than on the ginormous scale that a PC has the ability to be. a 1ghz process with an old radeon 9600SE and 1gb ram gets lumped into the same category as any new super computer, and developers will waste time trying to make a good version for both, rather than just 1 version that fits all.

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