Posts by Guni

Personally, i feel the name isn't very appealing or good. Keeping it simple and straightforward may seem boring but its the way most maps get there spotlight. Dust, Cache, Nuke, Inferno, Santorini, Castle, Ali, Resort, etc. These are all really simple name's but there effective. So far the name is the equivalent of calling your map de_ak47.

The layout as far as pathing seems good, but the bombsites look closer to the T side than the CT side, have you tested timings to each site? Also as Jack mentioned one of the sites is quite open, it's up to you if you want it to play like an awp map, but remember people will just avoid that site if it becomes too difficult to take/hold. Some revision on spacing and cover is probably going to be your primary goal at this point. Followed by layout and pathing.

I feel like visiting the 7th moon of Jupiter at this point.

Quote from MaanMan

If anyone is wondering Himilia is the 7th moon of Jupiter. It is fairly small, rocky and shaped like a potato. It was found on December 3, 1904 by C. D. Perrine, who named it after one of Zeus' many maidens.

For anyone wondering how far Upperdawg facepalmed himself, it would be about 588 million kilometers or 365 million miles.

If anyone is wondering, Upperdawg would have taken a rough estimate of 2 years and 6 months to reach Juipters 7th moon, assuming he is traveling at the current cruising speed of the International Space Station.

Quote from jackophant

It's hard to get a good idea for scale, but judging from the screenshots I would think that it looks like the map itself might be quite small, but the main areas of play are quite expansive? It's possible if these paths were closed down a bit the map might feel larger.

Early brushwork looks good, but interior areas look a bit too dingy and could do with some lighting up. Natural light would look best, but a few flickering candles could be a nice touch.

Get it tested boiiiii

The map is a bit smaller than some other maps but I initially wanted a faster gameplay mechanic than its brother (de_cbbl), however that being said it may punish players not leaving spawns early and I understand this, so I will wait for the playtest and see if it needs to be expanded. As for the lighting in the underground, I just haven't really touched the site for lighting details and such so I'll work on it senpai!

Quote from El_Exodus

Definitely looks better than the version we tested some time ago.

Uhmm.. *erhm* can we pretend that never happened...

Made a submission for tomorrow night. Let me know via Mapcore or Steam if there are any issues. Thank you in advance RZL.

Hello, It's time to throw my hat into the ring, and although I don't have much as far as detail is concerned. I am pretty excited to finally finish up on Balance Testing with the map in general.

This is the alpha version of my new map, 'Keep'. I am currently looking for people to test it and run it on servers where I am able to get feedback on timings, pathways and strengths for each side.

Keep is a castle themed map, with its themes and influence from cbbl and plans for its own custom content in the future. A shipment of nuclear arms are being smuggled in via the wine barrels and crates located in the keep. Terrorists must destroy one of two locations, the keep's wine cellar, or courtyard; where a recent festival was being held. Counter-Terrorists, aware of the imminent threat, have been dispatched to neutralize the threat and retrieve the Nuclear Arms. Location is the Rhine Valley in Germany, It takes place during a Wine festival in the region.

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Alpha 4 Released

Before jackophant has a fit, I'll step in here for him. The title warehouse is a very generic one, and there has already been about 4 entries who have later renamed there map because of this. If you wish to continue with the warehouse theme, that is your choice. However I would recommend insist, that you change the name to something a little more unique.

Now for some critic. There isn't much too look at yet, and it would be nice if we had some more screenshots. The layout seems okay, but rather small. I'm personally not a fan of the idea that Terriost can wrap around B site. Ct's have to now Hold B and outside B path. A site also has a lot of little pathways in and out of it. I'll need to jump in later and look at it properly.

Quote from blackdog

timings probably need adjusting, but I don't see why the basic idea should be wrong.

having CT much closer to one site should motivate T to attack the other one, so there you start a game of wits of "are T faking?" sort of thing.

CT could rush middle and push T into a corner… but say one guy sneaks long A he would be flanking/be behind.

other maps have done similar thing. The very Dust 2 CT don't defend on the A site but past it.

The truth is in the playtest :]

~

Map theme is overused, unless you're just getting ready for playtest, I would investigate other options cos I'm sure can find something more exciting that will fit the layout

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I'm not saying its wrong, I just don't think its balanced or will work effectively with the way it is currently being implemented. Dust 2 still allows for CT's to arrive at B site with a bit of time to spare, however this currently does not treat itself the same. Wont know until he test's it however.

Quote from shadder

Alright, I'll remove it.

I will look into that. What do you mean by "no benefit to going for B site" ? Do you mean that T's shouldn't go there because CT's will already be there? Doesn't that happen on multiple maps?

Those are vents. I thought they were good because they would give T's more incentive to take control of that area and be able to take control of B easier and also surprise rotating CT's. I am looking for feedback on that subject.

How could I do that? I tried putting walls on the side but it wouldn't play that good.

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And about the workshop, I read that if you are not certain about your map that I shouldn't post the workshop link. I am not entirely sure this map will be good enough to entry the competition and I also don't believe in my abilites to finish it till then :D. This is the link however if any of you want to try it better: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi…s/?id=456836857

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Benefit probably wasn't the right word to use, more so it's sort of redundant to go there. Im not sure about timings for CT and T to get to the site but it seems so far away, CT's will probably arrive just at the same time if not later to B, making it really hard to play that site. Most of the players can roam mid and A at the same time so i suppose you could just put half your team down at B, but I don't think that's a healthy approach.

Personally, I never think its a good idea to allow the attacking team to have an easy way to go behind you. You want to make it a strong opportunity to go via connector but not to the point that it makes holding a site impossible. If T's get control of connector at the current state of the map. They can enter through all three locations, meaning CT's need to watch three entrances (one being there own spawn route).

You don't necessarily need to separate them, but being able to see A site from middle is a bit strange. Could work, but most likely not. You could try moving A a bit further away from Middle, or Middle could be moved down closer to B. Experiment and Test.

It is completely up to you of course, but by posting in this section it is implied that you have intentions of competing, even if you don't finish the map, you can still learn from this experience. Definitely give testing a try, it will make your map and understanding that much better!

It would be a good move by you, if you were to release a workshop link even if it is in the alpha stages. Play-testing and having people being able to find what may not work in the map is a really important and crucial part to building your map. Remember you are building for the community first, yourself second.

So I will try to do my best with feedback but I really don't have much to work off yet. The overview is what I am going to focus on, because it gives me the most information regarding the flow.

> Two Long's is not really needed and just seems like a way to back-rage the opposition. I would recommend removing the second long path and keeping it to one long.

> Your Middle and especially B site, are really really far away from spawns. It looks as if it takes long for CT's to arrive at B site than T's. There is basically no benefit to going for B site, unless you wanted to sneak it while everyone sits around A site. To fix this spacing and timing issues, try moving your T and CT spawns further down the map, so they are in-between the two sites, or at-least closer to middle. Maybe even try bringing the sites slight closer to the CT's.

> That pathway leading from the Connector towards what i assume is CT Entrance into B is un-needed. Remove it and keep it simple.

> A site and Short seem like one whole area, and It looks like they are assimilating middle. Try to show that these are all separate paths, not just one big open field.

> If you start to question layout or timings, I definitely would recommend looking into Jacks Pants. Surprisingly the thread isn't as small as you would think ;P

Hopefully some of this helps you re-balance your map. Goodluck!

Quote from Thund3rb1rd

I really don't mean to upset you, but are you totally serious? A replacement of a boat to van, while there is all water around it? ...How did the terrorists get to the map? By a van driving underwater? "The Mystery machine" from scooby doo :D?

And I think this change is just more of a decoration than a useful addition to the gameplay.

Quote from jackophant

Before the message following yours, show me where the water is in any of those screenshots?

Regardless, even if I had seen the water, what's stopping the replacement of the water with another form of boundary involving a road?

It's feedback, whether it's aimed at the aesthetics or the gameplay why does it matter?

I was under the impression that jackophant was refering to the fact that there was no real indication for the boat to dock there. Besides the water being incredibly dark, i think he meant that the fencing and concrete didn't really give the direction that ct's arrived to a dock. You have to create a little story for the player, make it seem like they just arrived to the location, make it real, make me emotional.

Also on the topic of spawn points and there relevance in the area. Why are CT's emerging from a church?

Some Critic:

> The size of the map isnt very big and most of it is very open, so there isnt really any choke points. You basically just need to sit at the upper site and have free control of most of the map.

> The site's being so close together isn't a good idea. Rotation times are basically one second jumps, and there isnt really any advantage for choosing one site over the other. I would look at moving the lower site under the ground or at a different location all together. Overpass and Nuke is probably the closest examples to your layout idea, but even those suffer in rotation times in my opinion.

> Pretty simple building forms, not too much brushwork on the outsides of them, again I understand you mentioned you would be adding detail later so I'll leave that with you.

> Lighting seems a bit strong in certain areas, or bleeds to much. Try to add more subtle lighting in areas and make use of other lighting props over the site.

Goodluck.

Some of de_change I would like to see is towards your pathways, they are very narrow and long. I think the map needs to be made a bit smaller. It would be a smart move to also implement some neutral textures (dev) while you work on the layout and size of the map. Seems a little silly to line up all your textures now, just adding extra work to your workload.

Hello Promulle,

I went through your map and besides some of the other issues people have stated, i found these to take from the map in a negative way

> The underground area is just confusing and redundant, it creates too many hideyholes and pathways that are un-necessary, and makes the whole idea of pushing a site confusing. I think either refine it to a one way path, or remove it completely.

> B site has a huge bomb plant zone and you have about 4-5 entrances into the site, holding it is a nightmare.

>There is a secret tunnel that is half done, or something... I'm really not sure but its behind the silver door.

> The two ladder access's, one on top of a glass window and the other on top of the veranda, serve no purpose what so ever and are pretty much pointless. It's nice if you want it there as a scenic value, but don't make it possible to climb them.

> To many boxes and cover scattered around.

> Buildings are simple and not much to them, also the windows and edges are all non-solid. Door ways were also very large and B site you could just throw grenades over the walls.

> A site has a strange wood wall to break to go up into the top area. Don't mind this idea but the wood itself is just way to big.

> Timings were very strange and didn't really have much balance due to all the pathways.

> The sky-box is just too dark and half the map is still very dark, especially the water and little detail areas at T and CT Spawn, think about changing the map to a daytime or dusk version, or adding more lighting to the map.

> The area just in-front of T spawn with the boxes that is blocked and leads no where is also pointless. I think you set up a wood window for wall-bangs but it really isnt going to be a viable option. Either turn it into a scenic thing you can run pass, or just remove it all together.

> The little saving area to the left of T spawn is also pointless. It will just turn into a camping den of love and sex.

I know this may sound over critical but I'm just trying to help before you go any further, I think your best bet at this stage would be to take what works, and what you are happy with and look at downsizing it a bit, maybe run over some of the helpful tips in Jacks Bible, and then try creating a grey-box version of the map that is a bit cleaner and smoother.

Hope it helps, Goodluck!

Quote from Pampers

Must be an echo in here today.

I'd like to see a map overview or something, even on the workshop page there was nothing.

*EDIT*
Why does quoting a post with quotes, not include the quotes in the quote.

Quote from jackophant

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Nothing you've mentioned has been altered for the next version so far, except for maybe the garden>squeaky route to A. The window has been replaced by a pathway which blocks LoS to mid, so sneaking is possible unless CTs get fidgety and restless.

The open rooftop on A has so far not caused any game breaking problems. It's a bit of a wildcard, and we've tried to keep it as exposed and dangerous as possible. it's a position that seems to work occasionally when you catch people off guard, but repeated use will end badly for CT. T's are able to boost up there via missile pods close by, or by jumping from boxes on A site. They can also hide the T side of the window out of sight for a cheeky angle, or they could push the ladder and hold aggressively. It's set far enough back that you shouldn't be able to camp an obscure angle in an after-plant position.

The "main" B route, is quite wide yes, but it's not impossible to smoke. The tighter chokepoint is between the arched building and the box with a slight angle cut out of it. We were allowing for T's to smoke their way in and split from that route, similarly to how cache plays with the chequers/vent area. That was what we intended anyway, if it plays differently we ofc have to address that.

Sounds like you've dabbled with all these things already and have a pretty good understanding of what you want out of them. I think your right on the A site, its not an over-powered position but it does give an advantage if your ignorant of it. However im curious too see how re-takes work for the site.

As for B, I didn't really think about smoking it off, my mindset is too Entry Fraggy, so i think you are correct with the smoke grenade but i wouldn't mind seeing a few alternatives to it, such as maybe some small bit of cover in the midst of it all. However I think a nice 5v5 playtest would show whether the strat pays off

Art Work like that needs a watermark, I've seen that posted on deviantArt at least 5 times within the hour.

On topic:

As Jack said, you really want to only give certain height advantages where it generally is a choke point or a must. Think about trying to make the inclines more gradual, that way you still leave some height difference in the map, but you don't make it too strong. Think of Mirage's A Ramp entry from T, as a good example. Entry into the site isnt at head height, by the time they've reached the top of the stairs/ramp, they are full body if not 3/4's.

Basically "Less is more"

Quote from jackophant

Trying as 2 tier mid approach. Seemed to make sense as we couldn't balance the garden. My only concern right now is the ease of backstab from CT, but if Ts are coordinated, it shouldn't be an issue at all (as would be the case for any other map)

Thanks, in the couple of playtests we've had so far, people seemed to settle very quickly which I would hope is a plus!

I just finished running around the map after the painful experience of downloading 2mb

Honestly, I generally enjoyed it, I enjoyed both bomb sites, the way they were set out and the layout of cover seemed balanced and interesting. The only things I thought might be an issue is how abuse-able that Window to Roof setup would be on A site, the short A to door path being a difficult sneak, and finally the choke point leading into B was rather wide and didn't give much cover and relied solely on long firefights.

Not sure if I've played an older version, if these are things you are aware of, but otherwise I'm looking forward to future updates and a playtest :D.

I think the layout is good, even if it is "Generic", why re-invent the wheel if it works?
Most gamers want to jump into something that feels familiar and easy to navigate it, people don't like change unless it benefits them haha.

I'm gonna try and download this with my potato internet and take a look at it properly, and then if I have anything to add, I will do so in this post!

So! I've returned from my holiday through Europe and I fixed up the map based on feedback and overall experience. The map still has elements from before but as far as layout and timings are concerned its very different.

The map is smaller now, the ridiculous middle is now gone and has a more interesting mid to replace. As it's still all grey box, it isnt much to look at visually but I just want to finalize pathways and get to the point that I am happy with it and get going on the Art Pass processes.

I will look at booking another play test soon and hopefully get some feedback on what sucks and what works.