Quote from TaylorIs there some command for nudging myself out of geometry? A charger has planted me inside it twice now.
I don't know what you're doing. I've never had that happen. Sure while he's pounding you his arm might be through a wall, but when you get up you should be just fine.
Quote from SenturaYou put forward the opinion that because L4D2 doesn't have (and I quote) "major changes in story, atmosphere, gameplay, technology [along with] correct timing", it cannot be a true sequel, in your opinion.
I put forward a list of evidence taken from the game itself that countered each point of your proposition, showing that L4D2 does in fact meet all your requirements for a sequel.
So essentiaqlly you are saying: "Yeah but what I said was an opinion and an opinion is not a fact therefore you cannot prove it wrong because it was never true in the first place".
In which case I accept your defeat, albeit somewhat ungracefully, and would ask you to consider not being such a faggot in future. Of course that is just my opinion.
i never said you didn't try to counter it. however, you weren't successful since i still have the same opinion. which again brings me to the point that opinions cannot be countered. stop being an idiot - it doesn't suit you.
Acting like an idiot is unfitting for you too.
Quote from Rick_DUsing something internally and releasing it to the public are very different though. The SDk, when released, for L4D was pretty damn good, it just worked and had loads of stuff to make it easier to ship custom campaigns. I'm sure this won't be different. Surely people should be enjoying the game rather than instantly building new maps
you could build in L4D SDk if you really nedded, to, the shit will be compatible.
Doesn't mean we don't wan to poke around the content without extracting it all from the VPKs... or poke in the maps. They changed the BSP format and broke the decompiler so we can only hope they give us all of the map sources like last time.
And yeah I think with L4D1 they tried to make a push to make it more user friendly and get more people involved. Sure the tools didn't change to be more user friendly, but they created entire documentation to cover how to do all of the things... Crescendos, Nav meshes, finales, etc.
'Official' story (AKA Only word we heard) was from Chet was that they were "testing the rc" and if it "encounters no issues it will ship today". This of course was the day after L4D2 released and... I still don't see it. 
Robert: The smoke/fog behind the boat looks more like bad flare smoke from HL2:Ep1 than real smoke.
I think it needs some more depth?
Quote from S.W.A.T.YI tested the map with Valve's models and it made the sniper scene part of the map look 100x better but the only problem is that it made the filesize 210MB and it was taking forever for people to download the map so I decided to remove them.
No shit.
Quote from GloglebagWeather or not something is a sequel is a matter of semantics. They could have just changed the maps and called it a sequel. But Valve does not get the respect it receives for chugging out sequels every year, they get because their games usually are very strong, last long, and nurture whole communities, and they also tend to take a long time to make. As far as I can see l4d2 has less new content than most other AAA sequels. It took 1 year to make at a company that is taking 2+ years for a sequel to a small episodic game, and it shows. No one had the same reaction to TF2, to HL2, to Uncharted 2, to MW, to MW2. MW2 alone, has a whole new campaign full of content, has 16 separate co-op missions, one gun in mw2 has more addons then there are guns in l4d2, and far as I know they had as much people working on it as there are valve employee's, plus it had a proper predecessor. What you've done is list every single little detail, much like a mapper explaining all the reason for specific areas and how they influence game play, but with that level of scrutiny one could write a whole novel for something like HL2.
So now that you have a gun with a million different loadout choices, MW2 is a proper sequel? 
You could say the same thing for the zombies: There's 5 face textures and body textures, and 20,000 different zombies now (or so). So that's still 4,000 combinations per-texture. Sounds like more addons than that gun in MW2. 
I'm impressed, Ping reduction and less time between syncs!
Quote from Senturai don't know if i agree with this. i think that a game should at least introduce major changes in story, atmosphere, gameplay, technology as well as have the correct timing to warrant itself a sequel. i personally believe that anything which doesn't have these significant changes in quality isn't enough to be considered a sequel; it is just glorification. however, my opinion isn't really what matters here. like i said before, companies themselves have their own reasons for marketing games or updates or even glorified expansion packs as sequels. while i don't believe that each and every one of these reasons is justified for the creation of said sequel, my only choice as a consumer lies in whether i choose to purchase the game or not - just like everybody else.
everyone has their reasons for buying or not buying a game; and these do not have to be logical at all. you forget that some people even bond emotionally with video games in the sense that they feel more involved because of a certain narrative or characters they can relate to. what i personally dislike is being pushed around because of my opinion of a game after i've decided not to purchase it. games of this caliber don't need the extra free marketing or wannabe salespeople trying to shove down personal advertisements down people's throats. it is unnecessary in the same way trying to defend a company such a valve is unnecessary.
But you see, if they introduce a major change in the story then you have issu- Wait what story? That was basically the plot for L4D1. Zombies. There was no storyline and that was how they designed it. In L4D2 there is more of one. Atmosphere: Have you seen Hard Rain? Seriously the only campaign that feels like L4D1 in the slightest is The Parish. Gameplay: We've gone over this... They've completely changed Vs. for a better more polished less ragequitting experience.
I'm still not sure why sequels should have to listen to some time constraint.
Nor am I exactly sure why we're arguing/discussing.
Quote from Rick_D*Bigass walloftext* x2
Quote from Rick_DValve as ever, on the bugs.
what does that even mean?
are you disappointed they are fixing bugs?
are you suggesting that valve are the only company to release a game that contains a bug?
I'm saying they actually fixed it and got it out fairly soon after the problem arouse.
Unlike the SDK which was broken for weeks.
Quote from Sentural4d2 to me has always begged the question, "why didn't they make the first game this instead of releasing a sequel a year later?"note that i'm not saying they should implement all they have done into l4d, i'm just wondering why they didn't start out with this instead. either way, i'm not getting this because i'm biased against turtle rock studios.
Because... completely new content, new characters, new materials, models, maps, settings, gameplay, ai, director, techniques, effects, shaders, etc don't count as a sequel? What do you call a sequel then?
First off all I didn't say it wasn't a sequel, I said it was the least updated. And what I consider a good sequel, a sequel that adds enough to justify a full price tag would be TF2, HL2, MW, MW2, BF2, BF:BC. L4D2 amounts to barely more then new maps, and models, it's as many said more how the first should have been then something that go's beyond. It is in no way in the same league as the aforementioned games, they added a lot more to the previous games, and took more then a year to make. And teams like IW and dice have a lot of experience making games on tight schedules, when has valve ever made something in less then a year?
So you're okay with paying $60 for MW2, and that's a "Full" Sequel, while you don't want to pay just over half that ($35) for L4D2?
Also if you listen to the developer commentary in L4D2, they've put a ton of work into it. There's something like 20k zombie combinations now, which is *I THINK* ^5 more than the first game.
i think what he means is the grade of the content. essentially l4d2 is l4d in a new setting, with more weapons. there simply isn't enough change to justify a sequel. if you look into other game sequels, they will often provide more content than just this - therefore consumers are more likely to think of it as an expansion pack rather than a sequel.
also, people couldn't care less of how much work is put into a game. people want visible results; they want a new, enhanced experience - not something they have essentially seen before (see above statement). not everyone is aspiring to get into the game industry and looking at it through our eyes. i don't even think most people care to watch the developer commentary, much less analyse and reflect upon them.
So... What's MW2? Some gameplay tweaks, and some new maps... What justifies the sequal?
Crysis->Warhead: More storyline told from a different person.
Halo 1-> Halo 3: More storyline, new places, new characters.
Sounds like L4D2 has got all of this.
Also I think they do have a new enhanced experience. Versus mode is FUN. They made some serious tweaks to it so health bonus no longer takes place. It's now a more polished experience that doesn't leave one team 3k points ahead of the other at the end. If you guys can play all of the different modes of L4D2 and tell me that it's not a new enhanced experience, I'm going to ask you what you're smoking and if I can have some of it.
As for the reason it probably wasn't l4d1: It wasn't originally from Valve per say. It was Turtle Rock Studio, and it developed from CSS where they'd take 4 players against bots on expert skills with knife only. I think everyone but one dude from TRS has moved up to Valve's HQ now though. It was originally being co-developed with Ep1, Ep2, Orangebox, etc. There were also limits as to why some of this wasn't done in the first game.
To clarify: I'm not mad at you, I'm not angry or upset. I'm not trying to attack you. I'm just honestly curious why you don't consider it a valid squeal?
Fixed steam client displaying "scanning for updates" while decrypting newly unlocked content
Valve as ever, on the bugs.
Because... completely new content, new characters, new materials, models, maps, settings, gameplay, ai, director, techniques, effects, shaders, etc don't count as a sequel? What do you call a sequel then?
First off all I didn't say it wasn't a sequel, I said it was the least updated. And what I consider a good sequel, a sequel that adds enough to justify a full price tag would be TF2, HL2, MW, MW2, BF2, BF:BC. L4D2 amounts to barely more then new maps, and models, it's as many said more how the first should have been then something that go's beyond. It is in no way in the same league as the aforementioned games, they added a lot more to the previous games, and took more then a year to make. And teams like IW and dice have a lot of experience making games on tight schedules, when has valve ever made something in less then a year?
So you're okay with paying $60 for MW2, and that's a "Full" Sequel, while you don't want to pay just over half that ($35) for L4D2?
Also if you listen to the developer commentary in L4D2, they've put a ton of work into it. There's something like 20k zombie combinations now, which is *I THINK* ^5 more than the first game.
Quote from SteppenwolfHave you tried to choose a different axis in the Paint Geometry settings? It's set to "Face Normal" by default but there are other axis that you can select.
Alt + Rightclick while on Face Normal will set the face to get the normal of.
And frankly it shows, it's one of the least updated sequels I've seen this gen.
Because... completely new content, new characters, new materials, models, maps, settings, gameplay, ai, director, techniques, effects, shaders, etc don't count as a sequel? What do you call a sequel then?
Just spent the last... *checks watch* 7 hours playing, non stop. I've played the first 3 campaigns though on Advanced.
Won myself a Gnome on Dark Carnival and we lugged the damn thing through three miles, uphill both ways in the middle of a zombie infestation.
Then we had to get the guy onto a freaking helicopter. What a challenge that was. We eventually one by one guy becoming a hero, running one way throwing every molotov, pipebomb, bile, and eating every pill bottle (And adrenalin) he could find.
That's because the boycotts wants were satisfied. The group just hasn't disbanded.
Quote from zaphodhow else would you expect a cactus to be able to wear a hat?
It would sit ontop of the spikes.
Quote from zaphodok, sounds like the server just crashed. If you could save the console.txt from the server directory from the host machine the next time this happens it would be much appreciated!
Sure, though only had it happen once.
I meant a gameplay test you silly billy.
