Posts by FMPONE

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from ginger_lord

    Your names still on the team page and you made a map for the release version, I presume you've left then?

    1) out of my hands

    2) incorrect

    3) si

    Quote from Skjalg

    Now who's looking like the big prick! PVK2, a TC (if you didnt know), beat INS by half a year!! And we're releasing beta 2 very soon, adding three new classes with new weapons + lots of gameplay balancing. new combat system that registers hit where the sword is at, not where your crosshair is at + finally taking use of the directional attack by introducing directional blocking.

    well that sounds fun

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from Sentura

    Sentura said: wow... just wow. fmpone really needs to sit the fuck down and relax a bit. the whole thing about what to do and what not to do with a mod has apparently been elevated since insurgency came out, and ins people have really started fortifying themselves to barricade away any and all critique. i discussed this a few days ago with ginger_lord: if you cannot handle criticism the way you get it handed here, then why are you even here at all? you sit and whine about your damn mod all day long every time someone says something bad about it. here's a pointer: maybe people criticize it because it's not worth their time. i'd rather see that you would invest time in shaping the mod rather than sitting here endlessly babbeling about it; it gets you nowhere. in fact, the only ins member who has actually taken this maturely is minotaur0. suck it up, learn from your mistakes, stop whining and move along. if one of you can, why can't the rest?

    I'm not on INS

  • I am making a DoD:s map.

    ah the venetian bridge excellent concept. I must ask you not to use cs_italy windows, however, as they are slightly ... well, hideous ;(

    I think this map will be fantastic, I love the way you've set up the buildings on the bridge, it makes me wonder why I didn't think of it looking at my giant book of Venetian photographs :3

    edit: I must say, this would be a perfect opportunity to learn some 3d/2d art wink wink

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from Fletch

    Well first off, I never called INS shitty in any way shape or form. I think it looks nice and has some definite room for improvement in terms of gameplay (good base is there).I took offense to them taking potshots at Garry just because he's not drinking their Kool Aid.

    Well you fairly cut and dry did before you edited your post and mine, but Step just stated a fact (no clue where you get this Kool-Aid nonsense from, whose Kool-Aid exactly?) and you started some catty shit, but again you've been doing it for a while now as I pointed out with the post history stuff

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from Fletch

    Because a mod that took 5 years to produce anything really needs to lecture other people about proper project management....

    garry has never managed a big team with G-Mod... thats a fact. What exactly is your argument, other than starting some flame shit with INSUX LOL?

    btw, fletch on mods:

    "Just because Insurgency took 5 years to release anything doesn't mean you have to be bitte ..."

    "Nothing impresses industry professionals more than dragging a mod out to DNF-like levels of delays." @ ND

    you're so fucking whiny on this stuff not to mention you edited my damn post ugh you fail pretty badly overall duder

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    I'd actually disagree R_Yell, on the point of the TC's not releasing or possibly not being able to release.

    Insurgency is out

    Fortress Forever will release with no doubt in my mind.

    Nuclear Dawn will also release, I'm fully confident and so is the team there

    infact the only mod I think is in doubt of releasing is Black Mesa, but only because of the legacy of NW and the difficulty in making SP content. But again, excellent team and the only obstacle is just alot of mapping required to recreate HL1 so it may well do just fine for itself.

    BM:S will certainly be the last of the mods to release, so the TC strategy will hinge on its fate, I suppose.

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from ginger_lord

    Is it me or does it seem to be the INS devs on one side and everyone else on the other Either way, sure INS has the most player count at the moment of the free HL2 mods. It also had what 5k players release week, I havn't seen it above 1k for the last week or so whenever I check.

    All newly released mods (and retail games) start with a peak as everyone downloads it and plays, we'll all be able to better judge this in a month when you have an established base of players.

    Or not. Time will tell.

    I'm not an INS dev for some time now but its not really INS developers more like people working on an ambitious TC. Black Mesa, ND, FF all apply, but there aren't as many members registered as their are INS devs on mapcore

    And you are 100% correct about the peak, but as it stands INS has been the most successful, if we're running a stopwatch to see how long the player peak has lasted and its strengths. But we may well see it fall, I don't know if I would root for that though, all it means is that every Source mod is going to enjoy a little success and than fucking die hardcore, which doesn't seem like a great reward.

    Thats certainly been the prevailing trend.

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from MrBaracuda

    I guess INS will deliver a more interesting gameplay and atmosphere with patches to complete that package?

    .

    INS is the number one free source mod so I doubt the INS team is too worried

    I don't even think UE3 will have any real TC's.

    Source will probably be the last engine to really pull it off

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from KungFuSquirrel

    Steppen, that you accented a point by saying "just "mods"" is a very telling statement of how drastically things have changed in the wake of CS and DOD's success.

    Well I'm not interested in making toys like Garry, thats for sure

    In order to be a major mod you have to impress. In order to impress you have to have the whole package especially when in an atmosphere like Source everything is competetive and other mods are semi-pro, that takes alot of time. Mods like Dystopia have tried to add these impressive things on but its failed, because people aren't going to wait for your tenth patch to see if you've got good graphics yet.

    Valve could solve the whole dilemma by allowing patching through Steam, but until that day release early release often died with Source unless you're making a gimmick game, as far as I'm concerned.

    edit: Step is quite right

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from KungFuSquirrel

    They already have, as I mentioned in my earlier post; they regret using the episodic term applied to the HL2 expansions, and 'release early, release often' does not hold true for retail products.

    Quote from Steppenwolf

    It may work for just "mods". But nowadays it doesn't work anymore for more ambitious projects. A good thing takes his time.

    I think these two points summarize the situation, a mod like Garry's mod which has no ambition of being a retail-competetive game in visuals or storytelling or gunplay etc etc can be developed for an engine like Source quickly because it (being a totally unconventional type of game) completely dodges what is for everyone else standard requirements.

    On the other hand, you could never compare it with a Black Mesa Source, which Garry did quite mistakenly, because they have really nothing in common as games, either through development or when released. The people at Black Mesa have, no offense to Garry, alot more on their plate and a much higher expectation threshold in everything from visuals to gameplay to sound to code polish. Apples and oranges through and through.

    That misunderstanding was Garry's error and as has been said, Valve's at one point too. But I am still proud of games like Insurgency, Nuclear Dawn, Black Mesa, Fortress Forever which prove that not everyone in modding is in it to make silly sand box games and remain dedicated to the goal of creating a retail-comparable game

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from KungFuSquirrel

    Just like those dismal flops of Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat, eh? Or Natural Selection, that for months only had a hacked together technology release of only bare bones functionality and a couple partial texture sets? That drew far more people to the mod than a hushed team would have, and people even made up their own games with it while waiting for the full release (skulk racing anyone?). Those were the mods for Half-Life, and every one of them had at least some form of early hack of a release to start building interest, support, and even draw more talent to be a part of it. You can't just point to Dystopia and say "nuh-uh, look, the entire system is flawed" - if it didn't work for them, well, that's unfortunate for them but not an argument against the entire method.Garry's mod is no more an exception than the widespread appeal of the Wii - it's simple, and it's fun as hell. Does anyone even remember the stuff randomnine did back in the day? Canned Tuna? Turbo, the snark racing mod? It's great when a big group of people get together and do something big and impressive, and I agree that it's shitty of garry to be taking potshots at mods, but people have got to stop treating every mod like it has to be a replace-every-last-bit-of-original-content re-invent the wheel retail-equivalent package in order to be worthy of play or respect.

    We're talking about Source mods. When you introduce HL1 stuff you dismiss the importance of hardware, which is foolish.

    There are more than one variable, and your strategy HAS failed for Source.

    Quote from Campaignjunkie

    Okay, define "failure." So they didn't become gigantic successes - not many mods do. They still have passionate fan-bases. Join any SourceForts server and try to learn all the advanced building techniques that have evolved. Watching that HL2 CTF video where Valve planted their own cheats in the code was also pretty entertaining. People still play Adrenaline Gamer.I think the problem is that people are doing "release often" but not following up with "iterate." Okay, so the gameplay isn't interesting - the solution isn't a balance change or a new player class, it's a different set of rules and game modes... But then you risk upsetting the community that has stayed on since the beginning. In any case, I agree that none of this is as simple as Garry makes it sound.

    I'd say having sub 100 players is a failure, because not only have you failed to reach alot of people but considering most of these mods are multiplayer only, you've not met your one and only goal of providing a game.

    They don't have bots, of course, so if you load up an Insects Invasion and see no servers, you literally cannot play that game.

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from Skjalg

    There are simply more advantages to releasing often.. the biggest one is, as most of you have mentioned that you can make lots of small tweaks along the way and make the game better and better all the time. The second biggest is probably the whole PR thing, you are always in the news' and people will mention your mod more often (new version is out!! orly?).

    Or you're like ND or BM:S and make hl2.net or hl2fallout with 2-3 screenshots. Just a thought, hype matters :wink:

    I think BM:S would have a much easier time getting media on one of the news sites than a "release early release often"er like say, Insect Invasion.

    I also think that people like Valve should think a wee bit and take a look at the example they set with holding their newest sequel back for 2 years before they say release early release often.

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    well its difficult to argue against prototyping, but the evidence suggest having a an actual publicly downloadable release policy of "release early, release often" approach doesn't do any better and in fact may do worse in practice than developing something of retail scope with Source mods.

    all you need to do is consult the stats, as I did with my little chart

  • Interview with Garry on Shacknews

    Quote from FrieChamp

    Even Valve told the community long time ago: if you don't release your MOD in smaller chunks, in iterations, then you are losing the biggest advantage that MODs have over retail games. Valve is actually trying to compensate exactly this now by going episodic.

    I will just again stress how much of a complete and utter failure Dystopia, the shining paragon and example of the type of mod development you're propsing has been.

    The game currently has 88 players

    also Source mod failures with this style:

    PVK 2

    Battlegrounds 2

    HL2 CTF

    Eternal Silence

    Source Forts

    Goldeneye Source

    Hidden Source

    mods not doing horribly in terms of player count:

    Zombie Master (relatively new mod, still low player count)

    the exceptions:

    Garry's Mod 9 (which has had steam advertisement as a commercial product, and is a casual game)

    number one amateur (free) Source mod:

    Insurgency

    So next time you say release early release often take a look at the stats list and realize your strategy has failed in HL2 modding more than its worked