Posts by nervousquirrel

how the hell do you guys do this stuff?

Ya no shit, these are beautiful. Hit me up if you want a project to work on

EDIT: Sry for double posting, my internet blinked on me.

Quote from Nysuatro

It is alsow better if you know your team personal. So you can discus things private and descent.

Than alsow you know that your team really wants to work on the mod.

And a other thing is that you must support your teammates.

If they are stuck on something you could help them so they wont be to about it and wont quit so easlly.

If you know you can count on someone , you know that your mod is strong and you will believe more and more in it.

It is difficult to garner relationships amongst team members, although I agree that this is importaint.

If you're going to join a team, ask the leader why the other members have joined, and if it's due more to interest in the project or if it's simply because the offer was made. If you feel like members are not in it due to interested, then you should re-evaluate your discision to work for the team.

Well, we could use some modelers as well. Curently I'm focusing on aquiring level design and modeling talent.

Not true, my mod has a very good coder, who is dedicated... so it's just about the same.

Well, we're not implimenting the bonus system. However, I've made a point of making sure that, should you have the shot (like your "end of the street" example), you can take it and kill. Testing will tell. Thanks for your compliments...

Wanna map for us?

Our project's focus is on the following:

Designing gameplay dynamics that support and perpetuate...

a) engagements that are significant and last

b) realworld tactics such as maneuvering around the battle field,

suppression fire, and flanking

c) the use of cover as an effective tool in combat (if you're behind

significant cover, but have a bit of a leg or something sticking out, the

odds of getting hit are fairly slim)

With regards to your question about realism... I see it this way: there are two schools of thought when considering realism.

The first is the prevalent model that focuses on high damage and an accuracy system that allows for very accurate fire under certain circumstances (i.e. CS, Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon, etc..). This sort of gameplay does not particularly allow a real exchange between opposing players, as the accuracy system only allows for pointing and clicking... and exposing yourself at all in games like this usually means death and the end to what could have been and interesting encounter.

The second is ours, the model focuses on the reality that firefights do not end quickly. Engagements in the realworld are struggles that involve more than just crouching, pointing, and killing. Engagements last for indefinite periods of time, but for lengths of time that are more than the standard game dynamics in the so called "Realism Mods" allow. There are elements like fear and skill with weapons that one cannot translate so well into a game (refer to the article written by W. J. Frisbee Jr. entitled "Fire fight Dynamics"). In order to have the same dynamics, one must look at other solutions to creating a sustained firefight in a game.

In my model the way you simulate this reality is by designing the game so that it is more about manuvering and getting the "one up" on the opposition, rather than finding the single pixel floating above cover and clicking on it. We change the objective from quick kills, to having to work for a kill. This involves manipulating dynamics such as accuracy, damage, movement, etc... so that no one person could end an engagement so quickly as they could in "realism mods"; but are still capable of killing, should they be in a tactically superior position/situation (whatever that entails). In the real world, it's all about exposing your target and making sure you are covered adequatley, and we have not overlooked that.

More about cover:

Where I think the first model mentioned above is lacking is in it's support of cover. Any "exposedness" in the first model equates to quick death, whereas in the real world that is not precisely true, and where in a game that makes for "point and click fests" rather than involved, exciting circumstances in which teams can employ necessary tactics in a virtual world.

Basically:

Having an engagement that can be ended by the click of a mouse before anything has really even begun is not as awsome as having to fire at eachother, suppress the enemy, and go in for the kill.

Thanks. I think that one of the most importaint things in a game, insofar as gameplay and general feel, is the quality of the map design. I hope we can have some of the talent from this community contribute to our project.

I'll start... blender rocks!

Post all your Blender (http://www.blender3d.org) related stuff here.

Quote from |FRITZ|

nervousquirrel, I really think you should take down the images of the "maps"

it gives a really bad first impression. Stay in the dark, no need for pictures of squares in more squares.

Yeah I've thought about that. Although I do plan to use that map for testing, I've wondered whether or not it turns people off since it's basic. Does anyone else feel this way? EDIT: I've removed it.

Back to the focus though, I am a level designer myself, but I need some help. We are looking for level design talent to help contribute, please contact me should you prove interested in the project.

Quote from Grin

the mod leaders are trying to build a model aeroplane, and they have all the parts but glue is missing.

Nice analogy, I agree.

So perhaps then, when you're looking for a mod, ask a few questions about the coder. Whether or not they have one, if he/she seems dedicated enough, etc...

The "Firefight Project" (http://www.projectff.com) is looking for mapping talent to contribute to the project. Our team is currently consists of a core team of 4 people, including myself, who are producing content for the project. We are now undergoing the preproduction stages of our mod, testing gameplay mechanics, before we go into full swing on the mod. However, we are trying to obtain talent now so that we can have the ball rolling when testing is over.

Below is an excerpt from our temp site, detailing our intentions.

Quote

This project, simply named the "Firefight Project" for the time being, is a serious gameplay experiment with the goal of discovering the specific elements that produce fun and exciting firefights in multiplayer games. It is a study into how cover, weapon potency, weapon effects, and various other gameplay mechanics play into creating interesting tactical situations. Situations that involve more struggle oriented interactions between opposing players. The Firefight Project is the pre-production stage of what will hopefully turn into a full multiplayer mod for HL2 that, naturally, will incorporate the results of the project.

Please consider, and feel free to contact me should you want more information.

Email: fconcepcion[at]gmail.com | AIM: NervouSquirrel

Algor, I get what you're getting at. However, look at NS. They were and still are perhaps the most ambitious out of all the HL/HL2 mods. Their lofty goals when they started are now a playable reality. Granted, I remember it taking them forever to get it out, but so long as one finishes, amibition can be a beautiful thing.

I do agree with you tho, at the point I think you're getting at... which is that some mods over do it. Rather than following the "keep it simple stupid" principle, they strive for more content rather than focusing on making a good mod. For instance, and I'll use your example, some mods feature tons of useless weapons for the sake of having alot of weapons. To add for the sake of adding is usually not a good idea, and these teams will most likely waste their time producing needless content, and subsequently fail. Eiother that or turn out a mod that lacks focus, a mod where all the creative energy has been spread out over 300 weapons and 50 maps to play, rather than honing the mod's design into something worth while.

The On Topic Part: When choosing a mod, make sure to examine stuff like this. If a mod has goals that are pointless or excessive, or ideas that are far too conventional, take that into consideration as an indicator of whether or not you should join the project.

Quote from Grin

Imo most mods today start the whole modding progress the wrong way. Nowadays it goes somewhat like this:1. Idea

2. Name

3. Start looking for members "ok we have this mod Nemesis Divina/The Estyoporsis/Pressure Force/anything that sounds cool and/or sounds like something which has already been made. Remember to say that all members must be skilled and have previous experience, even if you don't have any previous leadership experience.

4. Make a website with forum

5. Get a shitload of ideas for the mod from current members. Note that at least half of them have to be in the first release "we'll release it when it's done"

6. Notice you have no coder for even remaking the menus.

The end.

Imo you don't need an idea for a mod before you start collecting the few core members to scrap up something that actually works. I wouldn't even start looking an idea before your coder has shown that he can make hand models hit with a wooden stick, even if the hands are just a couple of yellow pipes attached to a brown pipe.

And this means that he has to make it right away. It doesn't help shit if he has been a coder for a mod and done some work there before, it's easy to join a mod and lose interest right away. But when you've done something that works, let's say, a cubicle room with two block modeled characters hitting each other with brown sticks, gaining points per impact, you know that you have a team that can produce something.

Then would be the time for ideas and mod members.

And the most important part: Release when it looks even near the mod you're heading for. It's no shame to release something half done when you're not collecting money for trying it. I'm starting to get real pissed with some of these mods that have been made for the last decade, frankly I don't even believe mods like Nightwatch will ever make it, didn't they already say they're converting for source? It's like "it's almost ready, but not quite" "yeah, coming" "we promise" ........ "hey we've got a new idea, too bad the coder died for a heart attack two decades ago, but you'll definately see this mode later"

Betatesting is also one thing that is too overdone in some mods, teams like to clean all the bugs before release but IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. Any mod you release is going to have them, and most of them are easy to fix in the next release which will also bring some other features for the game.

Duh..text is prolly a bit hard to understand and lacs the red line, but try to get the basic idea.

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Are you saying this from some kind of experiance or just by conjecture?

I agree you need a coder... but it seems you're critisizing steps 1-5, which are logical and mostly necessary. And wouldn't finding members include a coder?

I think the mistake mods tend to make is in rushing things. For instance, mods that get all their members together and make their mod fully public without having a) enough content to do so or b) not having the infrastructure of talent to progress and put forth material. IMO, and this is from experiance, mods should hold tight with their PR/Website untill they have a team that is capable of progress (a coder, level designer, modeler).

Once you have a core team, then you can go fully public with the project (I say fully public because one needs to go somewhat public if they want to find a team. Having something to show prospective members is very importaint to garner interest. Something that would not gain too much attention as would something that is in full swing might.)

The problem lies in mods that build a full site with promises and information to get player's hopes up, without first having the assets and the promise of progress that comes with them.

*Admin please delete this message, can't delete it on my own for some reason.

I like it alot. The layout is pretty unique and the architecture shows alot of skill. The curved roads and texture work are very nice.

The only think I would object to is the "City 17" look it has. Granted, I understand those are the texture you have at hand for making HL2 DM maps, so this really isn't a negative, but I thought it was worth mentioning anyways.

Good job.

I'm not going to talk too much about my mod on this thread, it's not the focus. However, the site that we have up right now specifically says:

Quote from ProjectFF.com

*This site serves as a brief summary and showcase of the project. It does not reflect the scope of our intentions.

The purpose of that site is to have a minimal web presence while we continue with the experiment. Once we begin the actual mod, and have produced enough content to have a significant site, we will impliment a design with more information; one that is more fitting.

Quote from -Stratesiz-

Mods usually fail at level design. For me, level design is everything. You can have mediocre models and other visuals as long as the playability and level design is great. I don't really care about concept art as it doesn't really tell anything about the mod itself. Weapon models don't really tell much either. The two aforementionned are rather common as the main media content. Mods that have only such content to display will fail.Both mods fail to show decent level design content. Judging by the previous work of the LDs for the first mod it will fail.

AMEN. That is so true. Some people beleive that "gameplay will carry a mod". Frankly, although I do believe gameplay is the most importaint factor in a mod (the bottom line), level design and quality of work is something that can kill a mod should it not prove to be lacking. I am so glad I'm not the only one who has realized that.

Quote from Fletch

This is the criteria I use to look at mods:

1) Creative Idea/Design

2) Experienced coder in place

3) Mature/focused leadership

4) That Intangilbe 'Thing'...

These 4 things are key! I am a lead for a mod myself, and I've come to learn these things myself. BTW, that " intangible 'thing' " may be the impression the mod gives you through its presentation and cohesive vision. If a mod gives you the feeling that everyone on the team is on the same page, and has direction in their work, then you would do well by joining the team. It is a mark of 1 - 3 in action.