Quote from RDDont fool yourself. You are not explaining anything. You are calling me an idiot for disagreeing with their hatred
Okay. Smaller words.
The Danish make bad picture.
The Muslims mad at picture.
The Danish laugh.
The EU make more picture.
The Muslims get more mad.
The EU goes "uh oh!"
The Muslims riot.
RD says "lol stupid violent beasts lol"
Quote from RDMawibse is only repeating your argument Posty :roll:
He's repeating it and inserting something inside the argumentative structure that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and has no correlation in it whatsoever.
Quote from RDWait.. you are saying because a few individuals printed cartoons, its ok they hate us all, and we are racist xenophobes. :roll:
Your inability to use logic astounds me yet again.
No. It's not okay that they hate you all. I am explaining it. I am not justifying it. Should I use smaller words for you?
Quote from mawibseYou girls took on the short skirts, you made the sexy walk, you teased them with your dancing and now you're crying because they raped you? You can't be that obtuse.
Logical fallacy. Appeal to emotion. Your attempted jab misses its mark.
Quote from -Stratesiz-Does the word "you" imply the person who drew the characters, the people who publiced them in the first place, Denmark, Scandinavia, the Nordic Countries, the EU or the Western countries in general?How can the actions of a few individuals be blamed on a nation? Are all Danes evil now? Does that count people that have two nationalities?
It's a shitty situation, now isn't it? I get the brunt of loathing of Americans if I travel to other nations strictly because well, I have an American accent. Now am I to blame for everything the US has done? No. Do I get the backlash of that strictly by being American? Yes. Now why is that? Because people want to have someone to question, someone to be angry at. By being a member of that nation you represent that nation to that person. Same reason middle-eastern folks were killed and terrorized following 9-11 here in the US of A. People want a scapegoat for their problems and if you happen to fit that description they're gonna lash out.
For the record, by "you" I meant the EU and the US for reprinting those cartoons for no other reason than antagonization.
Quote from RDWell anyways, i will let you get away with the other points you dodged. But seriously ask them what should happen to the cartoonists and dare say something about it. Over here it has become impossible to do so without fearing for your life, so enjoy it while you still can.
I answered every single one of your points that bore merit and was on topic. It's not my fault that you can't accept real answers or have the mental capacity to think critically, RD.
As for the points about the cartoons you've just made again regardless of any logic thrown your way. You folks made the cartoons, you reprinted the cartoons to antagonize the Muslim world and now you're crying that they don't like you? You can't be that obtuse.
The world is fucked up right now!
It's always been fucked up
Dante famously divided Hell into nine concentric circles of increasing nastiness, behind a gate with the logo "Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here"
Good thing Dante wasn't a prophet and not just writing fiction. His writings have no bearing on Christian (or any other) doctrine and only use it as a prop for his story.
The signs of the apocalypse depend on your religious bent, but you might be in the apocalypse if you notice one or more of the following: * Fire (whether nuclear or otherwise) This always happens.
* Floods This also always happens,
* Pestilience (i.e., plague, anthrax, SARS, etc.) This always happens.
* Wars These always happen
* Rumors of wars hahahahhaha...didja hear? Like, Trudy is so warring on Angela right now, fer sure!
* Strange lights in the skies what?
* The Second Coming (of whomever you happen to be expecting) I can't get a rolleyes big enough for this.
* A virgin birth what?
* The birth of the Antichrist
uh what?
* Also a spree of false Christs and/or Messiahs There have always been crazy people thinking they're Jesus or that their message is from God
* Cloning what?
* Identifying marks being placed on the population at large I can't get a rolleyes big enough for this.
* Famine This always happens.
* Earthquakes This always happens.
* The Rapture I can't get a rolleyes big enough for this.
* Tornados, HurricanesThese always happens.
Nostradamus was a vague quack, the Mayans simply stopped making their counter and if you honestly believe this shit you're a frickin' paranoid delusional idiot.
Quote from mikezillaoh pleasenormal mapping can make ANYTHING fun.
Agreed! Normal mapping + Light bloom = gameplay 
Quote from DaanO"De VS hebben een beetje een versteend vrijheidsbeeld"(sorry mods for not speaking English but this just cannot be translated and both RD and killertomato will understand)
"THE US have a beetje a petrified freedom picture"
Petrified freedom pictures for all! Tiny American flags for others.
Quote from RDYou are still in denial of the problem. They ARE nice as long as you do what they want. This whole discussion is about them turning into killing machines when they dont get their way. Ask any of your friends what should happen to the cartoonists or Salman Rushdie.
How does this have anything to do with the discussion about the cartoons themselves? The cartoons were done by Danish people to offend Muslims, and that worked splendidly. Then other nations antagonized them further when the reaction swelled. This is like chastizing someone for getting angry when you call them an asshole. "My word! Look at this chap, flaring up like this when I call his mother a whore! How uncivilized!"
Oh but they've done such horrible things! Well what does that have to do with what's currently going on? It has zero bearing on this situation within the scope of strictly this situation. RD you repeatedly appeal to authority or bring up non-correlating events in an effort to reach for emotional outrage in a hopes that it will somehow block out that you have no real argument other than "PS muslims suk doods lol m i rite?"
Quote from RDBut youre just too lazy to do it and find out. Ive asked Posty as well but hes afraid of the truth too, or he doesnt have any muslims living around him.
I have a day-job you flamebaiting moron. I have encountered muslims before, and they've been nice normal folks just like any others. Now you're just trolling. Get on topic or get the fuck out of Poli-Disc.
Quote from RDMaybe you think its ok for them to condone the killing or beheadings of blasphemizers? Or you think its a joke when they say it with a smile?
Can I get a "don't feed the trolls" macro in here, please?
And yes, I believe we (the oh so good western people) have a much better world. For obvious reasons like:
- women are treated equall with men
Pay is not equal, especially here in the states. There are also LARGE groups of evangelicals and other religious types that believe women should be seen and not heard, or should be simply baby factories. Pay, insurance, marriage, etc etc etc. This point is hollow.
- we have a better lawsystem
We have due process and sometimes we even ignore that. Hello US's NSA spy program! Hello secret CIA prisons! We have a better ideal, but we're just better at hiding the stuff that people don't like to see or think about.
- we are more educated, thus better capable of making decisions of all nature
I've seen people with multiple degrees who are fucking idiots and people without them who are geniuses. Education is good, no doubt about that, but having a worldly perspective and an open mind is all the better. In general we're better about that. Quality of education is a big part of this too.
- we have more rights
To them they have plenty. They do need to work on other rights, such as rights for women and more education on the whole. However in countries that poor your average joe is worried more about the basic necessities for life than something as ephemereal as rights. We need to get them out of that poverty funk before they can really move forward in that regard.
- we are less corrupt
BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. Oh my 
- we are wealthier
Actually the oil rich nations are pretty well off. Distribution of wealth is another thing entirely. Also the fact that this followed the corruption line is all too
- we take care of our elderly and needy
And they don't? Where the fuck are you pulling this from?
- we have FREEDOM (of speech) damnit!
FREEDOM! LIBERTY! AMERICAN EAGLES! RED. WHITE. BLUE!!!!!! THESE COLORS DON'T RUN!!! Ugh, that poor word has gotten trodden on so badly in this last decade. You have freedom of speech so long as your speech follows the bandwagon of your country. I can't put swaztikas on products going to Germany and fascist political parties are outlawed in various EU countries, along with communist parties in a few.
And I can go like this for much longer.
Please do. I love ripping this stuff to shreds.
Quote from Fletch3. It should be an excellent game, not just excellent engine graphics - the play itself should be exciting and not serve merely as an excuse to show off the engine's graphics ability.
Fixed!
So Mapcore Political Discussion denizens I have a fun little online game for you to play! We all have our own political views here, and I thought it'd be fun to see how they play out in your very own nation!
Nation States! It's the fast and fun online nation building game. Design your nation to suit your needs! Heck, you can even design your own flag.
My nation can be found here: http://www.nationstates.net/the_animas
I'll even make flags for a few of you if you sign up to play! So Mapcorians, get out there and make your nation!
Firstly: Wow! Very nice renders. Interesting subject matter and pretty darn good skinning on that cannon thing.
Secondly: People still mod Battlefield: Vietnam? How many people play that anymore? 
Thirdly: Best of luck! I'd love to see a civil war mod come to fruition.
Wow,
It's okay, I think RD's a big boy and can take care of himself. Thanks for rushing to his rescue though, Killertomato. :roll:
Now ontopic:I agree with RD for the biggest part. Unlike posty, I don't think it's wise to reflect the western civilisation onto the middle eastern and to then draw conclusions. They are not us in other appearances; they think different and therefor need a different approach.
Why isn't it wise to reflect the western civilization onto the ME? We're from the western civilization, it's what we know. Like Stolve said, knowing this we shouldn't have antagonized them like we did.
Depends. We shouldn't be provocative for no reason, without it being legal etc. But in this case, we weren't. Facts unfortunatly are that the biggest part of the muslimcommunities in europe are intollerant, hostile and dominant. Therefore we (europe, europians) have the right to give feedback on that, on our own special and democratic way. It's not that we are only being asses to outsiders, minorities and whatnot. We are being asses to everybody, this is our way of giving feedback and letting other people know what we think of something.
This is what everyone has said. The first cartoon was just a social faux pas. The rest of the reprints and grand-standing by politicians was just morons throwing gasoline on the fire. What they did during the first protesting reaction was simply antagonistic, nothing more.
Quote from Skjalgretard? You out of points or something? Couldnt find anything relevant to say anymore, so you have to bash his intelligence? You just broke rule #1 and #4 in http://%7boption%7d
Oh shut the hell up Skjalg. Leave the moderating to moderators.
Quote from SkjalgBy the looks of it, rd is good at twisting words and therefor he really owned your arguments in this.
He didn't own anything, he dodged every point of that post and didn't argue so much as just try and be the usual out-there retard that RD is when it comes to any topic that even comes close to dealing with religions.
Quote from RDAs quiet as 911.
Hurrrrrrr... I'm not even going to dignify that with comment.
Quote from RDDid you Americans ignore the problem after Bush was voted in again? Or did you in fact confront it? You confronted it, your media is slaughtering the man and 60% of you think it was a mistake.
Exactly, and this is what we have to promote over there, the slow removal of Islamic state regimes. Not stupid antagonistic cartoons.
Quote from RDYou agree that it is a sickness and that it has to be dealt with. Universal or not is really irrelevant, but just to point it out: muslims in the ME didnt vote for Bush and christians arent muslims. Thats how universal being angry over an islamic cartoon is.
I knew this would fly right over your head. Should I break out the finger puppets to explain it monosyllabically for you? The cartoons only fanned the flames and gave an excuse for the people in the governments in these countries to really whip the crowd into a frenzy. Ever action by the EU afterwards only added fuel to that fire. The sickness is a universality because it can effect anyone, in this case it has infected the impoverished peoples of the ME.
Quote from RDA fucking tiger is a mindless killing machine. So... you agree with me?
Way to dodge the point, retard.
Quote from RDSomeone who becomes a mindless killer over a toon isnt moderate. That is exactly the sickness. What other approach is there?
Moderate Republicans voted Bush into a second term based on fear-mongering strategies that Muslims were gonna get them. This is no different. You take a bunch of people who are poor, un-educated, and angry about one small thing and you give them an ability to feel like they command their own fate for once and they're gonna go nuts. The same thing happened to the Nazis, the same thing happened to the Stalinists, and every movement that involved inciting the poor to riot against their oppressors. The sickness is universal no matter how many times you try and pin this strictly on the Muslims as a whole. This isn't an excuse for their actions, RD, it's an explanation, however I'm fairly certain this will fly clear over your head.
Quote from RDYou make it sound like the poor muslims are always pestered and finally fight back.
Considering the entire Muslim world was relatively quiet even with the invasion of Afghanistan, even with the invasion of Iraq, even with all the prisoner torture scandals and abuses of the Koran that happened, and all that other stuff? Yes, it seems like they've put up with a lot of shit and are finally mad as hell.
Quote from RDits time they get rid of their sickness
If only we could think of some kind of "Final Solution" or something to this whole Muslim question. :roll:
Quote from RDStill you blame it on the west, even after they have massacred dozens?Obviously they have no mercy for those who insult their prophet, live in the same country or just have a diffrent religion.
Are you truly this fucking stupid? Denmark made the cartoons. Denmark printed the cartoons. The EU reprinted those cartoons after the small initial backlash. Then cocky politicians started touting the cartoons as the pinnacle of free-speech when in reality it was just xenophobia for having so many North Africans moving into their countries.
Yes it's the West's fault in this case. You poke a fucking tiger long enough with a stick and the fucker's gonna take a swing at you.
Quote from RDand the ironic truth of the cartoons
I prefer to look at it as a kind of "last straw that broke the camel's back." It's a fucking shame that it's led to this, but you must admit that antagonization by the West (Italian politician saying he'll wear a shirt with the cartoon, reprintings, etc) hasn't helped.
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF MY IRRESPONSIBLE PURCHASING OF A MATURE RATED GAME FOR MY 7 YEAR OLD?
idiots.
also, fuck prostitutes. er, not literally, you know what i mean.
Quote from von*ferretI love how you keep bringing up Abu Graib as though that were how we are supposed to interrogate people. It was a confined location in which a select number of individuals decided to act in a very inhumane way and are being punished by it.
It was also found that the general in charge was taking orders from above and that person was never punished and everyone else got a slap on the wrist. These actions are supported by the army and her forces from top to bottom. The methods used are documented and defined. Coersion by force is torture any way you slice it.
Quote from von*ferretYour come back about how you basicaly expect its written that EVERYONE in our military does that and is directed to do that is simply sad.
Did I say everyone in the military does it? No. Did I say that it occurs and is disgusting? Yes. You're jumping to hyperbole here.
Quote from von*ferretIts depressing that you put such a low standard to the individuals serving for our country. If I was serving and were ordered to do those things, I would simply deny the order and go to my superiors. And I'm sure that I'm not the minority on this.
WHY DON'T YOU SUPPORT OUR TROOPS?!?!?!?!?!?!? 
Quote from von*ferretFurther more the detainees deserve no Geneva Conventions. Those conventions were designed for people who follow them theirselves.
So that means we should abandon them ourselves? Wow, your humanity and civility are as shallow as a wading pool.
Quote from von*ferretDoes that mean that we should torture people? Definately not. But I reserve the word torture for the inhumane things that the Nazi's, Stalin, and Cambodians did to eachother and others.
Godwin's law. Raising Nazis. Your hypocrisy is shining through here, Ferret. You say we shouldn't torture people and then go on to say that we're clearly not torturing people regardless of evidence so long as our troops carry the American and not the Nazi, Russian or Khmer Rouge flag. Let's not have double standards, one's enough.
Quote from von*ferretSuch things as, killing
There has been at least one torture related death that we know about.
Quote from von*ferretknocking out teeth
We do this already. Have you not seen the pictures?
Quote from von*ferretputting you on a table and removing it so you freefall and hurt yourself,
We tie people upside down with bags on their heads. We put them in extreme heat and cold after beatings.
Quote from von*ferretlittle or no food for their confinement
We force-feed 'nutrients' which is pretty much just waterboarding with some soup.
Quote from von*ferrettucked away in hidden prisons for however long they feel like
We allegedly do that. CIA, Poland, ironic placement of secret prisons ahoy!
Quote from von*ferretkilling, removing limbs, crap like that.
Phew! At least we're not removing limbs! You stated killing twice though.
Quote from von*ferretYeah what we do I would not like done to myself or my family, but you seem to forget that the people who are detained were detained for a reason.
Yeah, your civility is once again breathtaking. Of course they're there for a reason. Doesn't mean we should be torturing them.
Quote from von*ferretA number of them I'm sure would love to be the ones who cut a living human being's head HALF WAY off and let the poor HUMAN BEING gasp his last breaths of air until they die, and then cut the REST of the HEAD off and put it on their dead corpse. ON VIDEO.
This is such a retarded argument I don't even know where to begin. First you're assuming before they're even given a trial that they're 100% certainly capable of going out and doing those deeds or that they're guilty first and foremost. Over here in the US of A I was pretty sure we had a standard of trial procedure. Being the pinnacle of justice and the spreaders of democracy that we are, shouldn't we keep those same standards alive on the battlefield? I guess not BECAUSE THEY MIGHT CAUSE PEOPLE TO CUT EACH OTHER UP ON VIDEO!!!!!!!1111oneoneone
Quote from von*ferretMaybe you should check out that video one more time and relate to the countless people being kidnapped and persecuted simply because they're not Arab and have western ideals. Maybe then you would find that your compassion faltering for these individuals.
I've seen the videos. What those people have done is very wrong and should be punished. I don't see how this correlates to lowering ourselves to their level of barbary.
Quote from von*ferretYou act like every individual in Gitmo is treated with our "torturing" methods. Why dont you point out that there are tiers of our treatment, and the more cooperative you are, the better treatment you get. Hell they get to play soccer.
And you seem to act like the torture doesn't exist, is simply a "few bad apples" or is completely justified. Way to assume what I think about Gitmo, though.
Quote from von*ferretOur tortorous methods you are so diligantly fighting against include reading harry potter and playing brittany spears/metallica to break down their mental barricades and create relationships.
HAHAHAHHA are you seriously calling that "creating relationships?" Man you're a sick puppy.
Quote from von*ferretThe act of getting into someone's head and creating bonds between interrogaters and subjects is way more effective than beating them. And THAT is documented as an American method of interrogating. Not beating them, dressing them down, and making them get in Pyramids.
Sure it's documented. We have pictures, we have testimony, we have people found guilty of implementing those illegal practices. Are you talking about them not being official policy? Well then we have a case of "not knowing either way."
Quote from von*ferretYeah people are uncomfortable, but them being uncomfortable has lead to such revalations as other attacks planned on LA, oil pipes, and our bridges. So my safety and safety of countless other individuals who do not deserve to suffer is worth their discomfort.
Ben Franklin hates you, Ferret.
PS: Fuck everyone else so long as my illusion of safety remains intact!
Quote from neoticYou're putting words in my mouth. I don't know of any international recognized document concerning prisoners of war treatment outside of the Geneva Convention and that stipulates very many things, such as uniforms, recognized as a standing army of a nation, etc. I did not defend or deny Abu Grahib's actions.
That's all fine and dandy but it comes off as defense of current actions when you point out the reasons in the manner you did.
Quote from neoticPipe down before you hurt yourself.
Oh honey, hush.
