Brought Ninja Gaiden Black on Games on Demand and it vomited an error because I was on a Japanese console after I'd paid for it and waited for the download. Made me kind of salty so I comfort brought Devil May Cry 3 (bad port) and Devil May Cry 4 (awesome port) for the PC so I load them onto my laptop.
Playing Marvel Versus Capcom 3 at work still, full Darkstalkers team because we're only casual. Morrigan OCV anyway.
Quote from Senturaoh boy. not only does he not come with something original, but he chastises other people for doing the same? flower isn't just 3d snake, it's new and original and fascinating. this is what pisses me off, he comes off as a hipster trying to introduce something we've all seen before in a new package, and it's sooooooo original. not to mention hypocritical and pretentious.
Well, he's talking about Journey. I was comparing fl0w to snake to demonstrate how he could market/PR it badly.
But I think you should watch this. You'll really like it:
Quote from Senturayou're misunderstanding, i'm not saying everything should be the next big thing, i'm just saying it shouldn't be marketed as such.
I can just imagine Jenova coming out and saying “hey, this is fl0w. It’s like Snake only it has inaccurate six-axis controls, none of that tricky collision stuff, and no objective.” They're entirely about marketing themselves as the next step in games. Ex: Chen: Designers Of Online Games 'Often Do Lazy Work'. Though, more power to them. And he does avoid stepping on any toes (unlike ToT).
It’s not a game I see with any hostile mechanics, certainly not backstabbing. The shtick seems to be cooperating with someone who you cannot communicate with like Demon’s Souls. Only instead of stabbing up a dragon together you solve abstract puzzles. I’m sure it'll be worth the money and a play.
If I recall correctly they’re promoting it by saying “most” online that has come before Journey is outdated and for children, whereas Journey is paving the way with emotional, intellectual and social relevance.
Quote from Rick_Deither that or they didn't think of it first so therefore it's shit.
They?
I think it looks great but it's not 'deep.' Have you not played anything from thatgamecompany?
The no-communication multiplayer was taken from Demon’s Souls, anyway. But Demon’s Souls isn’t an art because it has stabbing.
Quote from Warbyits pretty fucking ill controls and combat are super tight and visually it might just be the prettiest game ever ! but its repetitive as fuck, super hard and the delivery of the story is aweful ... there for only 7/10 from me.
Yeah, that's the problem with Odin Sphere too, it looks so nice but you just end up clearing through the same areas multiple times with each character and it becomes a slog. If they compact it all into a few hours it'd be awesome.
lol deep
I really don’t want to do a line by line quote but you need to understand that 2D fighting games are a completely different beast to 3D fighters. Tekken having more moves is entirely beside the point, which was Ryu can reach them all from neutral. If, as an example, I have to press 1, 2, 1 to do the move I want, that wasn't from neutral, it was from 1, 2. This is a massive distinction because 2D fighters are all about range, zoning, controlling space, foosties, etc.
Trying to land cool combos or pull off clutch ultra is not playing a 2D fighter. These elements need to remain entirely intact in any solution to the supposed problem of motion inputs. There’s a massive guide on footsies here. Hands down the best way you’ll improve at these games.
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702
But to go through some points:
Sentura/Taylor:
[Blocked Image: http://alexandertaylor.net/stuff/trolled1.png]
Okay, I will do this.
Usually if the attack uses upper body it's the punch buttons, otherwise it's kicks. The motion itself usually matches the animation in some way, so fireballs brings his hands forwards, hurricane kick spin backwards, dragon punches duck down and spring, etc.
There are exceptions, of course, and some are stupid. Mainly on Ultra 2's where the existing ultra motion is already taken.
I don’t know why you think you need an arcade stick to play Street Fighter. I know a ton of players that play on pad. My main sparring partner and one of the best players I know plays on sixaxis.
At a rough count series staple Ryu can, from a neutral state (including jumping), access 47 attacks (6 take a resource). What console-orientated control scheme retains this flexibility?
You mention making specials into Raging Demon inputs instead but I disagree this helps. There is a reason moves with no resource don’t take a Raging Demon input and why all moves on a Raging Demon input are (mechanically) throws. And I disagree Raging Demon’s are easier anyway, in fact even as a long term player of this series it’s still an input I have to pause the game and check.
I think I’m arguing on two fronts here.
As a designer I appreciate the way Street Fighter 4 has handled accessibility and see how it could introduce even more through simple execution modes, better tutorials, better mission modes, and a story mode that slowly introduces game concepts if need be.
As a player I think this compromise has made it a weaker game than others in the series and, while I think some games are too lopsided in terms of execution, people who can’t input basic moves need to man up.
The Six-Axis has one of the best directional pads and I’d strongly advise using that over the analogue stick.
I think the difference is simply that I don’t think motions are that hard, although I agree that if you’ve never entered one before they are tricky at first. Then again so is doing an optimum build order in Starcraft, but nobody is calling out for an alternative process to skip obnoxious base building (are they?).
I’ve explained some reasons why I think motions are important: controller real-estate and the motion itself cutting off other options during the time it takes to be entered. But I do think an execution requirement is a good thing, if everyone could just pick up Marvel and
Quote from TaylorIt’s actually j.8D~A but that’s probably what you meant since 8D isn’t an input. Easiest way to start it is off 5B, 6A and it’s probably the best way to practice.
You jump cancel forwards then j.8D when you’re considered in the air (if you’re going horizontal it’s too early), wait until you hit them then press A to drop down, then jump again and repeat. You can pretty much hold 9 for the entire sequence. Off 6A you’re looking at 2-3 reps depending on the character mid-screen and 3 for everyone in the corner. If you want more reps you’re going to have to dash between the reps when you’re on the ground, allowing up to 5, but this is a lot of hassle and you’re not actually getting that much damage from it - so even some Japanese players don’t bother (5th rep is 100).
Once you’ve done the reps you need to do the finisher. It’s 2D~C, j.8D, j.5D~6, j.C, j.8D~6, j.3D~6, 236BBBBB. That last B hit is 450 minimum damage so a big deal.
A problem area here is the first j.8D, because if you air jump after your 2D~C it will take up one of your jumps and your next j.8D~6 will be a j.5D~6 instead, dropping the combo, so make sure you don’t hold upwards for this bit. The j.C timing also varies depending on character and if you're missing the j.8D~6 after you probably need to delay it more. Jin and Platinum (see above!) are particularly fickle.
Other starters include: 5B, 3C, 236A, 5D~B, 5C, (j.8D~A) for big damage but you have to be very deep for the 3C, 236A to combo on hit; j.5D~B CH, 5C (delay the 5C until they're over your head); 4B+C, 5B, 5C; and j.B+C, 5B, 5C.
This gobbledygook is pretty much a requirement for playing this character. If your strategy is perfect but you don’t know what the hell I just said you are trash with this character. And even though land this in tournaments consistently, I still think it’s bloody stupid and the game really needs to place less emphasis on this and more on the actual game-part between. But entering an ultra? As Yang you roll your thumb twice and press a shoulder button to do half their life bar in damage. I, personally, have no problem with that requirement.
Quote from Senturai am sure you could find better alternatives than not changing the controls...
Honestly, I was never into Capcom fighting games in a big way, and when Street Fighter 4 was first announced I ran my mouth to some design-minded friends of mine about how it should drop the medium-strength buttons and have a special button that worked through a single directional press for accessibility. They called me an idiot and went back to work. On reflection they were completely right and I feel kind of embarrassed for thinking that way, perhaps you will too once you get more into the genre.
SF4 has done a great job of being accessible. They purposely forgot half the mechanics of Street Fighter Alpha and Street Fighter 3, went back to basics and then made those basics more basic. Motions are easier than ever, you’re given free comebacks ultra attacks for losing, reversal windows are massive, throws are commands and easy to tech, damage scaling wards off huge combos, etc. It’s certainly much easier to play than the old SNES version for instance.
Perhaps Ultras could've had an easier input but I'm not sure what. I would've prefered A-ism to Super and Ultra bars anyway, but what can you do? Capcom are making enough money to release a new fighter every minute so Joe Average must get by.
Yeah, the goal of language is to communicate.
I should also link the fantastic What Games Are, which is also full of practical design sense and considerations. Not an argument for diegetic narratives and believable characters to push the medium as a pre-cultural art-form by creating our Citizen Kane that makes you cry by removing barriers.
Quote from Senturayou could ask for better controls, i.e., not have complex analog stick movements and replace them by simple commands (as i understand, this is what they're doing with streetfighter x tekken). i still have problems performing ultra/supers just playing with the standard sixaxis, and i've been practicing for a good while now. besides, akuma/oni/evil ryu all have examples of how supers/ultras could be done instead of forcing difficult movement on a controller that doesn't support it.
True, a lot of modern fighting games come with a ‘Beginner’ or ‘Simple’ mode. Some change the buttons to the most important attacks and specials, while others let you bind individual specials for easy access. Some arcade games do this too (Daemon Bridge, Arcana Heart, BlazBlue). I guess they didn’t think Street Fighter 4 needed it because it’s such a popular series, and you can get by with normals and simple specials.
I’ve been told by a few other design folks that I have too much faith in the average gamer, but I feel special motions aren’t that bad. I’m against dropping them because of the practical limitations of pad real-estate, but also because they have great gameplay benefits: entering takes time and removes your other options, thus forcing prediction over reaction.
Street Fighter 4 encompasses Joe Average more than any other fighting game. Damage scaling actually discourages long combos, losing gives you a cinematic comeback move, the reversal buffer is 17 frames, the input buffer accepts dragon punches where you didn’t even press forwards or down, etc. You couldn’t really ask for an easier starting point. I’m actually hoping that now it’s got people hooked on the genre again it can start reintegrating the complexity from Street Fighter Alpha or Third Strike.
Well, most kids won't credit feed arcade games anyway (unless they're on MAME) as starting over gives more play time. Kids are smart with their allowance :3
I think challenge is what makes games fun for everybody. But what’s fun for one person might be boring or frustrating for others, and challenges come in a range of different forms (some of which are quite subtle). So I think all games need some kind of ramp up for this reason.
I agree games shouldn't try reaching out to everyone. I did write up the example of how Ninja Gaiden’s easy mode was a bit of a slap in the face but, to be honest, people buying Ninja Gaiden aren’t expecting an AAA cakewalk. FYI: if you died the game would ask “would you like to continue?” if you die 3 times it says “would you like to quit?” and if so it unlocks “Ninja Dog” where you play with a bright pink bow...
Quote from Rick_Di have no qualms with a game being hard or testing the player but remember not everyone is some hardcore gamer, and one of the things i think we should have in games is a "get out of jail free" button. something that allows you to skip a level if you fail a it 3 times in a row or something - like the death-streak perks that mw2 introduced.
Alone in the Dark did this. You could fast forward a section if it was too much, almost as an apology for the driving levels, but it just reminded me of people credit feeding arcade games instead of manning up: The trouble with just continuing after the game has gotten too hard for you is that it’s only going to get harder. You’re only going to die again and it’s going to happen faster each time.
I think the modern generations trend for accessibility (read: easy) and empowerment (read: mash friendly) is a good idea but all they really need is basic balance options: a larger sliding scale for difficulty and being able to change it on the fly. More cinematic games can even go crazy with the rank system (dynamic difficulty adjustment (“AI Director”)).
The Tokyo Genso style is nice and all, but I couldn’t get on with Enslaved as I feel their entire philosophy is backwards. The game part seems completely side-lined - unresponsive and shallow; which is way more important than aesthetics and graphics.
I think Darksiders unashamedly ‘borrows’ from everything. You play as Arthas, Kel'Thuzard is the merchant, Kil'jaeden is the first boss, a Shade is your assistant, and you all drop out of the sky like Infernals. The dungeon structure, inventory screens and items are all straight from Zelda and the first dungeon even has bomb plants...
