Posts by DD

  • The role of the level-designer

    Quote from FrieChamp

    There aren't "any" BSP brushes in FarCry. Floors, walls, ceilings are even modeled objects (in different sizes) you place in the map and align them to get a room. It really is annoying when you spent most of your time in hammer before you start mapping with Sandbox. Maybe I''ll manage to convince one of the senior programmers here to add BSP for the next game (step backwards? )

    Yeah I noticed that when I tried to make a level some months ago... good thing the majority of farcry is outdoors. It also explains why my performance indoors in farcry was noticable worst. At least on my machine and I have a pretty kick ass rig.

    As far as I know Farcry uses OSP (oct-space-tree, very goo for outdoors/open indoors) or a form of + awesome lod + fog/distance cull + and I think more options for indoors (manual zoning). That's why it can easily go from outdoor to indoor and still cram lots of detail, no?

    Sandbox is an awesome editor, I wish I could bread lots of features from it, hammer, unrealed, and doom3 editor to form an uber editor.

    Quote from KungFuSquirrel

    Really, Doom3 is already very close to what I described. I can take geometry that I've built in the editor, export it straight out to LW, tweak it, and save it right back in as a model in maybe a minute at most. If it needs animations, I give it to an animator. I'm not talking about building a new editor, I'm just talking about merging functionality.

    You can do this in hammer, unreal and many other games. I was doing this with hl1 mapping in the past, but after repeated experience I learned I was just producing lower quality/less optimized models by doing so. I still did/would export bsp from the editor just to get scale correct, but I learned to never use the bsp as a base for a model.

    In hammer, say I wanted to created a water tower then export to max to model it. I would need several brushes to create the different segments or else I would create invalid geometry. The same is true in doom 3 ed (lets say we aren't using any patch meshes). After importing into max you'll find all these needless faces on the backsides of brushes inside parts of the water tower, on boths sides of intersecting planes! Hope that makes sense, anyways that's a real pain to clean up.

    I think the max payne 2 editor has a feature semi-like what you want. You can select a group of brushes, do some conversion and automatically remove those faces, do some beveling/extruding and other simple stuff, and it will convert those brushes into a model. Then you can instance it all over the place. Even at the point most of the stuff I saw created looked like it needed artist modeling time.

    Quote from Hourences

    BSP will definalty disappear, I dont think its going to survive the next few years.

    BSP or some form of it will always be useful. Especially in heavily indoor games. Outdoor games may use plain distance culls + or manual zoning (VERY TEDIOUS) and get away with it, but that only works in outdoor games. In heavily indoor games you want to cram as much detail as possible in a confined space. Some rooms may be long or just plain big and others small, lots of rooms need to zig zag close to each other, etc. Trying to occomplish a well performing game in that type of enviorment, and do it fast is just way harder and less efficient using modeling programs and no BSP like culling.

    The workflow, speed, efficency of dev teams using automatically generated nodes/zones for culling using BSP will totally blow away any competitor who thinks they can do the same using max and maybe + manual zoning or distance cull only. They just will not be able to match the detail and performance.

    Here's a great example: Compare an indoor area of Halo PC, performance and detail, to a game that was released on PC when HALO 1 XBOX was which uses BSP/OSP/the like.

    The term "BSP" many mappers use refers to in-editor built geometry. To me it means the method used for culling. BSP will not go away, nor will the use of it applied to editor built geometry.

    Also last I heard on unreal engine 3 was that it was switching back to additive "BSP". This to me implies that they realized it's importance and spent time improving it. And IMO the game epic plans to release using UE3 is NEXT-NEXT Gen.

  • The role of the level-designer

    I don't think even the doom 3 style of level design will make it past the next-gen or next next-gen. BSP will always be around, you need giant flat planes for walls/halls almost everywhere and it's great for optimization/culling. It's great for core architecture, gameplay flow control.

    However all the fine details, columns, computers, wires, lights, power plugs, shelves with books, pens, phones, foliage, etc. Those need to be modeled, and regardless of how cool patch meshes are, they simply can't go there. If you could even get that much detail in, getting the UVW map right would be insane, and let us not forget ANIMATIONS. A pipe or railing or thick wiring is ok, and even terrain, but I think going anything beyond that is asking a way too much. Programs like max/maya/etc. have focused on this for years, and artists train on those programs for years. To build an editor with that power would take lots of dev time and training time when it’s really not needed.


    An all-control-level-designer-program might work in doom3 but comparatively to HL2/farcry/etc., doom 3 is very low detail and simply would not work in those games. Take an average room from doom 3, take away the normals, fog and steam effects, and make it full bright. Now compare it to the same thing in hl2 and that's what I mean. I guess comparing the look of the levels in the two editors would be perfect to explain. Doom 3 relies so much on these things, and although it’s a nice look, I don't think it will make it past these next-gen's. I just don't see an all-in-one editor even getting close to the level of detail next-gen games are hitting.

    Try to imagine the next doom game on Earth (if there) with the current engine. A mixture of outdoor and indoor areas, office buildings, homes, malls, military bases... Lots of artist time is going to be demanded or it really just won't match the level of detail that generation of games will be at. Unless the majority of the game takes place inside a giant metal military complex and the like, some people like that...

  • ZAPHOD/MACMAN: Lighting in de_prodigy, reveal your secrats!?

    Clearly de_prodigy is awesome. I'm finding extreme trouble to get lighting to look good in hl2, but Macman taunts me! WHY!? REVEAL YOUR SECRATS!

    [Blocked Image: http://www.thedd.net/images/de_prodigy0003.jpg]

    My theory:

    -light_spot (please give me some range values and settings!)

    -func_rotating set to additive and non-solid

    -prop_dynamic for fan model attached to func_rotating

    -env_glow for glow

    -env_sprite for little sparkles/dust

    [Blocked Image: http://www.thedd.net/images/de_prodigy0000.jpg]

    My theory:

    -light_spot (please give me some range values and settings!)

    -prop_static or prop_detail for light, light texture set to unlit somehow

    -env_glow for glow

    -decal tool used + cool texture for wall lighting effect?

    [Blocked Image: http://www.thedd.net/images/de_prodigy0002.jpg]

    My theory:

    -light_spot (please give me some range values and settings!)

    -prop_static, dynamic, or detail used for actual lamp model

    -env_glow for part of the glow effect

    -I have no idea how the long 3d glow was done... model? model + shader? Don't tell me it's just a func_illusionary or sprite, it looks way too cool and 3d and round.

  • Tanks on the streets of Los Angeles, CA?

    Quote from The Postman

    How did Bush win? Last I checked it was a very close election, he won by 51% meaning that just short of half of this country disagreed with his leading our nation. Why else did he win? He pushed non-issues that incensed the right and those with Christian "values." Namely, abortion and gay marriage. Neither of which effect the domestic or foreign policies or outlook of our nation, yet many conservatives cling to with pitbull like tenacity.

    He won, sorry. I didn't want him to win but he won, and it's not just because he disapproves of gays and supports Christians. What Michael Moore or SA told you was probably a lie. Even if that was the WHOLE reason, which it's not, if you have to play mind control on a bunch of Christians to assure your victory then that's what you do to win.

    Quote

    Your "just following orders" notion works both ways. Just like the "good German" excuse for the guy that engineered the trains to the death camps of Auschwitz, he was just following orders and just doing his job. While he might not be directly responsible for the actions, he still took part and had the option to say no, albeit with consequences.

    The guy driving the tank is not a Nazi and he doesn't even come close to serving Hitler. They claim to have been going to a veterans day event, and probably were, but I bet the Soldiers thought it would be funny to scare the protestors. Don't forget, soldiers aren't machines, they're people who do dumb shit for a laugh. Who knows, but what matters is that we can't be sure so it doesn't matter, therefore this thread should be locked and demonstrate that the 1st ammendment means JACK SHIT on the interwabs.

  • q3_trueblue [Cellshaded Q3 DM]

    No it's not. Look at the photos. Cell shaded is a unique look where there are solid colors with 1-3 different solid shades for shadows & highlights, no GRADIENTS, on top of the black edges from any angle. Did he actually get the black edges from any angle look? If so thats awesome, but I sitll see gradients which is why I said nay.

  • Half-Life 2

    Just beat it, I thought it was fucking awesome. The graphics, animations, and tech really gave this game an A+ imo. Story and gameplay B. I think it lived up to the "hype", at least all the valid hype created from marketing and valve not the fan boy hype which is totally invalid anyway.

    Long story short, GIVE ME HL2 EXPANSION OR HL3 NOW! And wheres my TF2! Good job valve, take less than 5 years NEXT TIME.