dm_romanpool (Play test available)

    Quote from ReNo

    Isn't there a flag or property in the lightglow entity that lets you specify that the entity itself is inside the world? I seem to recall using it before when your lights have big bulbs like that.Lighting has made a big difference, but I agree with you that the dark areas look far too dark.

    Yeah, as ReNo said you can specify a maximum distance so the glow isn't occluded by geometry.

    Change the "Size of Glow Proximity" sprite field to be a value greater than the radius of the model's bulb.

    Quote from von*ferret

    For the ammount of light illuminating the room, the windows are not bright enough!

    Right...that was in the back of my mind after I reduced the sun glare effect from the env_lightglow. If you look at the pic I posted at the end of the first page the window is fully illuminated. Unfortunately I had to cut back on that effect because it didn't look natural when you moved side to side in the back of the room. It sort of flickered on and off.

    I will work on brightening the windows where the sun is hitting by some other means. Maybe a spotlight or just a plain light entity in the right place. Any other ideas for that?

    Oh and thanks for the tip with the glow effect! It worked great. I ended up using an env_sprite instead because I couldn't get a constant glow at a specific distance with env_lightglow. I really appreciate all of the advice and help you guys are giving me. It is speeding things up for me considerably.

    I think the layout needs work. I've never been to the baths of course, but if this is the actual layout, it doesn't make for very compelling play. Very linear, one-level play with few height changes or Z-axis gameplay. Not much opportunity for cover either, and only a few phys props (which is where HL2 DM really shines, IMO).

    Visually, I also think you can push the map farther. It needs more light contrast, and all the rooms look the same - especially since the layout is mirrored. There's no recognizable landmarks to help the players navigate. Look at the HL2DM source VMFs included with the SDK, see how Valve does some of its stuff.

    Some suggestions:

    - Ditch the sunset sky, it's generally overused. (I would suggest not using a sky at all, it takes focus away from the interior)

    - (Basically a consequence of getting rid of the sunset sky) Ditch the orangeish lighting. I think it looks busy and muddy when it interacts with the blueness of the textures. Of course some people like that, but I don't really care for it.

    - Consider making the lamps into prop_physics, to make gameplay more interesting. Plus - If the player can rip radiators off the walls, then why not these lamps? Of course, they won't be able to emit light anymore, but I think the map would be better off with less light everywhere.

    - Replace the brush benches with prop_physics benches. It'll look better and make gameplay more interesting.

    - There's no signs of use in the level. No dirt, nothing broken, everything is in pristine condition. Add some chairs, stools, towels, dirt, etc. You don't have to demolish the place, but I'm just saying that real-world stuff is rarely in perfect condition.

    - Add landmarks - unique bits that will make a certain room stick out. Maybe a fountain or something?

    - Showers in the bathroom? For the ones who'd rather not use the baths, huh?

    If you'd like, you can send me the VMF and I'll try to help with the lighting and such, or at least voice my opinion.

    Quote from Campaignjunkie

    I think the layout needs work. I've never been to the baths of course, but if this is the actual layout, it doesn't make for very compelling play. Very linear, one-level play with few height changes or Z-axis gameplay. Not much opportunity for cover either, and only a few phys props (which is where HL2 DM really shines, IMO). Visually, I also think you can push the map farther. It needs more light contrast, and all the rooms look the same - especially since the layout is mirrored. There's no recognizable landmarks to help the players navigate. Look at the HL2DM source VMFs included with the SDK, see how Valve does some of its stuff.

    The linear mirrored layout of the roman pool is very simple. Sometimes simple layouts can be compelling for other reasons. This map was directly modeled after a building that exists in real life. Multiplayer gameplay considerations did not “shape” this map. My original intent was, and perhaps still is, to try to recreate as much as the Hearst castle as possible to be played in a single player format.

    When this room came together, I was pleased with the result and thought that the shape and water terrain, while not ideal, would make a pretty interesting multiplayer format. It was at that point when I added the bathrooms (which there is not access to in real life) and kept the mirrored theme going by putting one on each side. I believe Hearst actually had a gym in one of those spaces.

    I have played CS way more than DM so I am a little biased toward a good old gun fight. I didn’t want to overwhelm the level with too many prop_phys to throw about. However, there are 12 sinks, 12 toilets, 4 radiators and 4 benches to have fun with in a relatively small level.

    Due to the small size, I would not be able to play this level for hours on end but as part of a rotation of dm maps, I think it is a nice way to change things up for a bit.

    Quote

    Some suggestions: - Ditch the sunset sky, it's generally overused. (I would suggest not using a sky at all, it takes focus away from the interior)

    I tend to agree with this. A night setting would not only keep the focus on the interior and I could avoid the hit I would take on gameplay from adding 3-d elements outside.

    Quote

    - (Basically a consequence of getting rid of the sunset sky) Ditch the orangeish lighting. I think it looks busy and muddy when it interacts with the blueness of the textures. Of course some people like that, but I don't really care for it.

    That is exactly why I changed the sky and added the dusk sunlight colors, because people seemed to like it. I like it quite a bit too as it seems to give certain areas of the map a portraitesque quality.

    Quote

    - Consider making the lamps into prop_physics, to make gameplay more interesting. Plus - If the player can rip radiators off the walls, then why not these lamps? Of course, they won't be able to emit light anymore, but I think the map would be better off with less light everywhere.

    I think I prefer the lamps static because they seem like a pretty important visual element of the level for me. The lighting doesn’t seem overwhelming to me. I would like to hear what others have to say about it.

    Quote

    - Replace the brush benches with prop_physics benches. It'll look better and make gameplay more interesting.

    Those benches are prop_physics but are set motionless until hit with the physcannon. I suppose I don’t have a problem with keeping motion on them from the start.


    Quote

    - There's no signs of use in the level. No dirt, nothing broken, everything is in pristine condition. Add some chairs, stools, towels, dirt, etc. You don't have to demolish the place, but I'm just saying that real-world stuff is rarely in perfect condition.

    Well the players seem to do a pretty good job shattering glass, breaking benches and leaving bullet holes so that the pristine look doesn’t stay for too long. I also don’t see why pristine is always a bad thing. Not every level needs to be a post-apocalyptic industrial shanty town.


    Quote

    - Add landmarks - unique bits that will make a certain room stick out. Maybe a fountain or something?

    I may change one of the bathrooms up a bit to improve the bearings of the player. Although after playing it a couple times, it is pretty easy to figure out where you are going.


    Quote

    - Showers in the bathroom? For the ones who'd rather not use the baths, huh?

    I don’t think Hearst ever really intended the roman pool to be a traditional roman bath. In fact at one point he had tons of salt added to make the water seem like the ocean. He even had crazy ideas of adding sharks and other sea life. The salt water ended up corroding the pipes which had to be replaced. The diving area also seems to indicate more of a pool style area.

    While I don’t know the layout of the Hearst bathroom area, I imagine it would have had showers at one point to wash off all that salt.


    Quote

    If you'd like, you can send me the VMF and I'll try to help with the lighting and such, or at least voice my opinion.

    Thank you for taking the time to critique and give your impressions of the level. A critical take from all angles is very useful. Sorry if I disagreed with some of your suggestions but I tend to defend things I take pride in.

    With regard to phys props - I think few players are going to go the bathroom just to fetch some sink or toilets. Both bathrooms are death traps; pretty cramped, with only two exits. Sid Meier defines gameplay as "a set of interesting choices" - and this layout doesn't provide much choice.

    I understand you want to create an accurate recreation of the pools, but I'm of the opinion that you can have your cake AND eat it too. Realism is just a tool to make maps awesome - I don't think it should be a goal in itself. But clearly... you have other ideas.

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