the new cartoon thread

Quote from killertomato

And yes, I believe we (the oh so good western people) have a much better world. For obvious reasons like:- women are treated equall with men

- we have a better lawsystem

- we are more educated, thus better capable of making decisions of all nature

- we have more rights

- we are less corrupt

- we are wealthier

- we take care of our elderly and needy

- we have FREEDOM (of speech) damnit!

And I can go like this for much longer.

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Even if I agree with you right there, this begs a question, how do we define "better".

For example, better lawsystem? Even if our lawsystem is quite good for judging people who do crimes equally, our lawsystem doesn't make breaking the law impossible, and the same problem remains, people are breaking the law and finding loopholes. So is it that the process is better since the results are much as twisted as any ther lawsystem.

I support the freedom of speech, and I like it, as much as anyone, but people don't seem to understand that freedom of speec is not just the freedom to speak about political views but it is also a responsibility, to take responsibility about what you say and the consequenses it might have.

Western media and the freedom of speech they practise is more like a shoutfest where people just insult each other and run away to hide, it's not any kind of discussion, it's down right childish.

I just want us to seach my theory on Europe and western society in general. In our society religion is not so centered in our everyday lifes and political decisions, and I that makes our society so different from middle east and far east. I came to the conclusion that many major events have led our society to estrange from religion as the major influence in our society.

Such major events may have been the industrial revolution and the growing level of education, one major event that has definedly been one of the things that have furthered the so called "dying of religious influence" has been communism in Europe, communists didn't take so kindly to religions and religious people, also World Wars have had a big influence in it too, it was the first modern time where a group of religious people have been systematically terminated.

All these events and many more in the past centuries have molded our society in to what it is today. All major events that has had effect in major scale. Same kind of things haven't happened in Middle East and that is why they are still so much ruled by their religion in everyday life and it has effects in their political stance and views too.

If Europe were still under the influence of christianity we wouldn't be any different from Middle East.

Quote from RD

Well anyways, i will let you get away with the other points you dodged. But seriously ask them what should happen to the cartoonists and dare say something about it. Over here it has become impossible to do so without fearing for your life, so enjoy it while you still can.

I answered every single one of your points that bore merit and was on topic. It's not my fault that you can't accept real answers or have the mental capacity to think critically, RD.

As for the points about the cartoons you've just made again regardless of any logic thrown your way. You folks made the cartoons, you reprinted the cartoons to antagonize the Muslim world and now you're crying that they don't like you? You can't be that obtuse.

Does the word "you" imply the person who drew the characters, the people who publiced them in the first place, Denmark, Scandinavia, the Nordic Countries, the EU or the Western countries in general?

How can the actions of a few individuals be blamed on a nation? Are all Danes evil now? Does that count people that have two nationalities?

I don't recall where I read it but I think a Swede got kidnapped somewhere since the kidnappers thought he was a Dane. After realising this they let him go.

"-Sorry for kidnapping you, wrong nationality"

Bleh.

Quote from The Postman

You folks made the cartoons, you reprinted the cartoons to antagonize the Muslim world and now you're crying that they don't like you? You can't be that obtuse.

You girls took on the short skirts, you made the sexy walk, you teased them with your dancing and now you're crying because they raped you? You can't be that obtuse.

Quote from mawibse

You girls took on the short skirts, you made the sexy walk, you teased them with your dancing and now you're crying because they raped you? You can't be that obtuse.

Logical fallacy. Appeal to emotion. Your attempted jab misses its mark.

Quote from -Stratesiz-

Does the word "you" imply the person who drew the characters, the people who publiced them in the first place, Denmark, Scandinavia, the Nordic Countries, the EU or the Western countries in general?How can the actions of a few individuals be blamed on a nation? Are all Danes evil now? Does that count people that have two nationalities?

It's a shitty situation, now isn't it? I get the brunt of loathing of Americans if I travel to other nations strictly because well, I have an American accent. Now am I to blame for everything the US has done? No. Do I get the backlash of that strictly by being American? Yes. Now why is that? Because people want to have someone to question, someone to be angry at. By being a member of that nation you represent that nation to that person. Same reason middle-eastern folks were killed and terrorized following 9-11 here in the US of A. People want a scapegoat for their problems and if you happen to fit that description they're gonna lash out.

For the record, by "you" I meant the EU and the US for reprinting those cartoons for no other reason than antagonization.

Quote from RD

Mawibse is only repeating your argument Posty :roll:

He's repeating it and inserting something inside the argumentative structure that has nothing to do with the topic at hand and has no correlation in it whatsoever.

Quote from RD

Wait.. you are saying because a few individuals printed cartoons, its ok they hate us all, and we are racist xenophobes. :roll:

Your inability to use logic astounds me yet again.

No. It's not okay that they hate you all. I am explaining it. I am not justifying it. Should I use smaller words for you?

Quote from RD

Dont fool yourself. You are not explaining anything. You are calling me an idiot for disagreeing with their hatred

Okay. Smaller words.

The Danish make bad picture.

The Muslims mad at picture.

The Danish laugh.

The EU make more picture.

The Muslims get more mad.

The EU goes "uh oh!"

The Muslims riot.

RD says "lol stupid violent beasts lol"

Quote from The Postman

I get the brunt of loathing of Americans if I travel to other nations strictly because well, I have an American accent. Now am I to blame for everything the US has done?

You folks invaded Iraq, you first said you did it because they where a threat with their WMD's then when they didn't exist you said it was because the Iraqis needed to be liberated, the invasion costs more then ten times civilian Iraqi lifes then US soldiers, and now you're crying that the world don't like you? You can't be that obtuse.

The people who made them didn't appology, the goverments and such did it.

So its like me saying sorry cause posty insulted you.

Quote from RD

They did apologize. For insulting the muslims, not for printing it.The muslims also wanted the government to apologize, but it couldnt because it has nothing to do with the media

They also apologized well after shit had already hit the fan and many other nations were reprinting them for the sole purpose of egging the ME on. After that point Denmark (and later the paper itself) apologizing was so many empty gestures all too late.

Quote from RD

The Danish make bad picture.The Muslims mad at picture.

The Muslims: death to all Danish

The EU make more picture.

The Muslims get more mad.

The EU goes "uh oh!"

The Danish apologize.

The Muslims riot.

The Muslims accidentally kill each other and innocents in the riots.

RD says "lol stupid violent beasts lol"

Posty says: what did you expect? You made your bed, now lay in it.

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Fixed.

Quote from RD

Why do you even explain it to me, you should be condemning their madness but instead you attack those who print cartoons

JESUS. H. FUCKING. CHRIST. RD. Seriously? I can't even fathom this right now. I've spelled it out in the clearest of simplistic language. The EU and everyone else that fanned the flames of this shit - the cartoon shit, not 9/11, not the beheadings, not anything else you KEEP BRINGING UP THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS - can't be angry at the ME for getting angry at them for printing those cartoons and basically pointing and laughing while they got aggitated. They only coughed forth a half-hearted apology when the int'l community chastised them for being the assholes they were in the first place.

Quote from RD

Denmark apologized before any other European paper reprinted the toons.

Give me a link that proves me wrong and I'll rescind that point.

Quote from RD

Europe didnt reprint them to insult muslims,

Bullshit. I suppose the wearing of shirts and the rampant reprintings was this oh-so-noble freedom of speech thing and not some kind of simmering racial/religious tension bubbling to the surface. Come off it.

Quote from RD

I could as well say you invaded Iraq to wipe out Islam.

Bullshit and that has nothing to do with this discussion, stay on task and stop trolling.

Quote from RD

We did it because it is the pinnacle of free speech to be able to say what you want without getting killed.

This had about as much to do with free speech as American white power idiots stomping through the streets. They're doing it because they know it gets a rise out of people and pisses people off. They know they're protected by the free speech acts here, but that's not why they're doing it.

Quote from RD

Obviously it is no longer possible in Europe because of extremists, and this basically proves the whole toon issue to be true and justified. Why the hell do we have to change our laws because the Middle East wants it.

The people in the EU protested peacefully. The people in the ME are the ones rioting.

Quote from kleinluka

And you think that this can be achieved by insulting their beliefs? i highly doubt it. it does the exact opposite. Moderate muslims become radicalized by these things and join the troops of terror and mindless killers. I don't think it's the right approach.

this is how christians where brought down to a calm.

forcing them to become tolerable, which was a long process. but it was done.