Conservative Religious Right crosses the line in Florida.

Quote from RD

Some ppl create an (imaginary) god, and others are mindless zombies that never marvel at the mystery. Their deepest thought "it cant be god" blasphemizes the science and logic they worship and satisfies all curiosity their mindless atoms allow them to feel

And to say "it has to be God" is naive. Why can't people just settle for "we can't understand that yet"?

Quote from GrayFox

And to say "it has to be God" is naive. Why can't people just settle for "we can't understand that yet"?

We would still believe the earth was flat and throbbing around the moon if we were like that. How do u know we cant understand it yet? It only takes one genius to reveal the marvel

Quote from Pericolos0

"I don't know" is never a satisfying answer but it's better for me than something made up. I guess it's in people's nature to absolutely need an answer on things. People are stupid

Very true.

Quote from RD

We would still believe the earth was flat and throbbing around the moon if we were like that. How do u know we cant understand it yet? It only takes one genius to reveal the marvel

Admitting that we don't understand something doesn't mean we will eventually.

I agree with Grayfox~

God is just a cop out, it leads to questions no one can answer as a way of ending an arguement.

If God made everything, who made God?

Whats the difference between saying "I don't know, lets not try to find out" and "God made it dummy"

Let me point you a different view, you all look your relationship with religion through christianity and it's many forms (I believe there are some other religions here too), but as a person who has had the time for no apparent reason to study religions not defined religions by the way we define them, e.g. Buddhism (Zen buddhism to be precise), Taoism, Confucianism all big philosophies in Japan, they are not religions in the way christianity is, they serve the people, not the religion.

You may be confused why I said that they serve the people, well example, usually in Japan people study different religions, not neccessary settling for one thing, but drawing strenght from all of them, sometimes Japanese stufy Confucianism when young, then Taoism when matured and Zen Buddhism when they are old, this kind of religion hopping is frowned here in western society, besides our religions are the absolute truth to those who believe in them, but in most asian countries, they are teachings, they use them to find answers, not to tell them answers.

So, how we see the universe is rather different from them, due to the religions and cultural differences, we don't know how all began, we try sciences to explain it, and when it fails, we go to the shortest possible route i.e. "god created it", when you ask someone who studies Zen Buddhism his answer might be "does it really matter? it is here for a purpose, just like we all are" and so on, while this Buddshists answer didn't give us absolutely anything, you have to understand that neither did the "god created everything" mumbo jumbo, the difference between these two are, the christian way is absolute, there is no room left for being wrong, but Buddhists realize the fact that at somepoint people have knowedge so vast that we can answer questions like that.

So, that is why I do not believe in any religion but have decided to remain philosophical human being, looking for answers, not giving them.

Quote from Jynxdaddy

Whats the difference between saying "I don't know, lets not try to find out" and "God made it dummy"

Science doesnt exclude God tho. If u believe God cant have made it, then u dont believe in science. Right now as far as we know evrything is possible, including God and its just as 'dumb' to believe it cant be him as believing it can only be him.

I suggest, unbelievably enough, to listen to Kosmo here

Quote

If God made everything, who made God?

Well ofcourse, nobody knows

Quote from RD

If u believe God cant have made it, then u dont believe in science.

There are a LOT of scientists that don't believe in science then.

Quote from GrayFox

There are a LOT of scientists that don't believe in science then.

Actually there is a very valid argument behind what RD said there, I know this might sound ridiculous, but god just might not be what we think he is. If you take the good old Star Trek for example, in many occasions there is god presented, but in a form of evolved being, higher intellect and physical form, this suggest that these so called all powerful beings are infact gods, when we define human capabilities and compare ours to those of these supposed gods, anything that is more powerful than us is a god, or higher being, it does not neccessary need to be divine, what is divine to us, is undivine or nefarious to others. Completely outruling the existence of god is to outrule the existence of science, in a way, not meaning that if you are a holyroller you are an science extremist. But the views of people in different cultures and religions are so different that to someone that what is god is to another just a enlightened person, or just a normal person, he at the same time exists and doesn't.

Quote from Kosmo

There are a LOT of scientists that don't believe in science then.

Actually there is a very valid argument behind what RD said there, I know this might sound ridiculous, but god just might not be what we think he is. If you take the good old Star Trek for example, in many occasions there is god presented, but in a form of evolved being, higher intellect and physical form, this suggest that these so called all powerful beings are infact gods, when we define human capabilities and compare ours to those of these supposed gods, anything that is more powerful than us is a god, or higher being, it does not neccessary need to be divine, what is divine to us, is undivine or nefarious to others. Completely outruling the existence of god is to outrule the existence of science, in a way, not meaning that if you are a holyroller you are an science extremist. But the views of people in different cultures and religions are so different that to someone that what is god is to another just a enlightened person, or just a normal person, he at the same time exists and doesn't.

Ofcourse, but we are talking about God, not a god.

Quote from GrayFox

Ofcourse, but we are talking about God, not a god.

Your god or mine? Even tho we are talking about god in the christian sense, everyones god is very much different, although the same.

Quote from GrayFox

There are a LOT of scientists that don't believe in science then.

What scientists believe isnt science. What they do in their labs is. Im sure there are many scientists who believe Michael Jackson is a childrapist as well. Alot of scientists believe that god didnt make the universe, but they dont believe its impossible. Its just a choice, like religion.

And like Kosmo said, u might just have a very narrowminded idea of what god could be. A while ago ppl thought god made thunder, but nowadays ofcourse most ppl dont believe this anymore cuz its just sum clouds bumping into each other. Luckily there are scientific minds who realize that even this doesnt prove that God isnt behind every single strike of lightning

Quote from RD

There are a LOT of scientists that don't believe in science then.

What scientists believe isnt science. What they do in their labs is. Im sure there are many scientists who believe Michael Jackson is a childrapist as well. Alot of scientists believe that god didnt make the universe, but they dont believe its impossible. Its just a choice, like religion.

And like Kosmo said, u might just have a very narrowminded idea of what god could be. A while ago ppl thought god made thunder, but nowadays ofcourse most ppl dont believe this anymore cuz its just sum clouds bumping into each other. Luckily there are scientific minds who realize that even this doesnt prove that God isnt behind every single strike of lightning

You both got me totally wrong. The topic is about a law in America, so naturally we are talking about christianity. I haven't said a word about other religions or their gods (except for my last post), nor should I.

And by the way: religion is not a choice (in most cases).

congratulations, u won the religious debate

Quote from RD

congratulations, u won the religious debate

Quote from The Postman

Good science doesn't involve "God" filling the gaps. :roll:

But then again, can good science afford to exclude god? From what I hear, he has quite a fanbase.

Quote from The Postman

Oh that is such incredible bullshit I don't even know where to begin.

Begin from the view of a young boy born and grown in a conservative country and culture that forcefeeds you things as truths till you are 16 years old. That is where I always start.

Quote from The Postman

Do you even read posts before you reply to them? No, God is not in science. God and dieties like him were used to define the world around people who did not really understand that world. Nowadays you're watching the desperate clingings of a slowly dying view of the world.

If you analyze my answer, it was more of a metaphoric answer than a truth written in stone, there are alot of scientists who believe in god, since even tho they do not prove his existense nor do they deny it, it gives them comfort when something goes wrong, like a death of a relative, are you actually a complete moron or do you think that god is just simple pile of atoms that we somaday might proof that he exists or doesn't.

Religion is much more than science, even I know that and I'm against most religions, there are people who are smart enough to know that god and jesus (or his connections to something divine, I'm not going to debate if he did or did not exist) are bunch of crap, but when their relative dies they want to have comfort and they go to funerals that are usually held in churches so that they may feel that their soul or what ever is in better place and they want to pray, not because they believe in god or anything, but just because they want some ease to pain.

I have lost 3 relatives in past year, one of them was my mother, and believe me when I say, even if I feel repulsive when I think about every think man does in the shroud of religion if feels so fucking good to think that she is now in a better place where there is no sorrow or pain. So that is the core of what I just answered to you, so take out a pair of brains and think about something before you answer.

Quote from The Postman

You can certainly choose it. It's not like it's friggin' genetic.

Yes, you can choose is like your choose to go out or not to, but when basically everything you know is based on the same beliefs, you have a habit of clinging to formulas, like christmas and easter, they are part of the culture, sure you can go and be something completely different but the culture that has been molded by the major religion is still there, I still take the free day off from work when it's easter, and I still celebrate with my family when it is christmas, not necessarily celebrating them as religious holidays, but because I have done so for all my life.

So you see, you can choose your religion, you can be anything you want, but you still are what your roots are (I know you are moronic enough to twist this to something like "you can choose not to be something you were blah blah" so don't even go there, I know that), something many of us learned from Muhammad Ali aka. Cassius Clay.

Quote from The Postman

You can certainly choose it. It's not like it's friggin' genetic.

Ok, let's compare. In America schools teach religion as facts, in Finland schools teach the facts of religion. Probably stupid to compare America to Finland, but it is the truth.

Results: Most of the young people in America believe in God while most young people in Finland don't.

If I want my future children to believe something, it's not that hard to make them believe that (especially religion). As years go by it doesn't necessarily become a choice for them to stop believing anymore because they already do and it has become sort of a habit and a big part of their lives as daily rituals (going to church, praying etc.).

One last thing: how many American award shows have you seen where most people don't thank Jesus/God (sometimes even for everything they've ever achieved). How do you think this affects the millions of younglings that idolize the winners.

Quote from The Postman

Good science doesn't involve "God" filling the gaps. :roll:

Science fills gaps with the truth, whether it be god, tripods or alien semen. Science doesnt care if u hate god, its completely irrelevant to science what ur opinion is :roll: God is possible, and science defeats u if say otherwise.

Quote from Pericolos0

since when is the truth democratic. Science deals with the natural and observable. How can we observe god?

Science also tries to find answers to unnatural things and observe things which are yet unobservable. For example the great mystery of quantum physics isnt what is observable and natural, but unobservable and still thought as unnatural.

Since we dont know what god is we dont even know what to look for. If we would travel to the end of the universe in 2030 and see an allpowerful orb with his son next to a golden chair, then evrything you have ever observed will be proof of him.