What I'm Working On

Quote from RivFader

I saw some feedback from players like Steel that came in pretty late in the development cycle. How do you manage such late input: incorporate it into the first finished public version or do you keep it in mind and incorporate it into the map during the first big update after you got all the other public data?

I cut some things he said were a bit much, and otherwise I plan on testing a lot since he seemed to think the map would need to be play tested and I don't disagree

Quote from Vaya

What happened to the the season build with the reduced rotates, reddit thread about santorini reminded me, is that still happening?

I'm not sure what is going to happen with Season moving forward. If anything.

Quote from Mvllsk

Bugs in de_santorini that I found:

- Many trees are non-solid for nades when they could be used for pop flashes and such. Most prominent example are the two trees on A Catwalk.
- You can molly A Cat from the underground area below

also

http://puu.sh/l8qME/40deada688.jpg literally
http://puu.sh/l8qO0/01963868c6.jpg unplayable
http://puu.sh/l8qP4/fb7a98d77d.jpg map

I freaking hate you guys.

jk

Today I will release probably the final major update to Santorini. As the map has come quite a long way since release, I decided to put together a comparison of what Santorini's layout used to look like vs. what it currently looks like:

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/sezgrs0.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/7RUYhFS.jpg]

You may ask, why all the cuts? The answer to that is really simple: what players were able to absorb in greybox testing and what players were able to absorb after final art, ended up being two totally different things.

Back in November 2013, greyboxing testing began on Santorini. We developed a fun and dynamic greybox that seemed pretty ironclad. We were half-right.

In a way, Santorini has truly humbled me as to the importance of greyboxing. Yes, obviously this is a critical stage in map development. Because Santorini was extensively playtested in greybox stage, we had a map with fundamentally good flow. However, because we overshot the complexity of our greybox (by quite a bit), it was later necessary to recreate our flow and what made the level fun and functional, on an almost totally different scale. In many ways this felt like making a second level, with all of the art and design challenges of a second level piled on top of an old one. Thankfully, I think we've got something with really solid negative space (most well-known Counter-Strike maps have large areas of negative space and limited numbers of negative space territory -- Santorini clocks in at about 12 areas of negative space, Cache has 10, Mirage has about 16, Dust2 has 5 [might this help to explain some of the map's enormous popularity...??] etc.).

One of the really cool things about this process has been preserving the areas that work best artistically and gameplay wise, but having the freedom to ask "should we cut this?" I think all of the possible cuts have been made, and the map now has a pretty sensible competitive layout that will be (and this is important) easy for players to learn and navigate, with the flow and timings that made the map fun in the first place. I'd say I'm pretty proud of the improvements to this map, and the lessons from this process will stick with me for a long time.

Quote from will2k

@FMPONE that's a MAJOR layout change especially around A, B and CT spawn. I liked the connectors in the previous versions (even before the first layout shown here - circa october 2015) but I guess all the "confused" players nagging about the layout took its toll at the end

Best of luck with the new version, great map.

PS: for the dates on the screenshots, don't you mean Jan 2016 and Nov 2015 instead of Jan 2015 and Nov 2014?

Thank you!

As for that feedback, I don't really care so much about what people say, as much as what people do -- ingame when I play with them or in demos that I watch. I will say that if people give specific feedback that always helps, and what I hear in-game matters a lot. Watching people play demos of Santorini, it was obvious the map had to be made easier to navigate for players and the map has certainly come a long way in that regard.

Quote from Vaya

'Before' doesn't include those nasty windows onto B that I'm glad you ended up removing ...

I agree about the negative space aspect too. A lot of the maps we see on mapcore playtests don't have enough of it. It seems to be a common mistake to think that a map needs have as much of the internal space to be filled with function as possible- not giving the layout + areas enough room to breath As you've increased the negative space by removing redundant or over designed paths the gameplay as improved substantially. Hoping that it gets into the next operation- I would say It's heading towards proper competitive viability.

While I've not played the newest build (I don't think ESEA is running it yet) but one thing critical I'd say is that you could do something more unique with the theming of the CT side corridors. What do you have - a construction area (this is like a map trope now) and some decaying corridors. you could have this a little more open and feel like a back alley- something common in greece but I think your map is missing.

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-a-…a-84823516.html

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-81588106/s…ini-greece.html

sorry for the stock photos but you'll probably get what I'm meaning

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I don't have that radar anymore, it was an early cut

I agree, the most egregious construction area has been removed (rightly). Now that the map is literally out of construction, it'll be tapered back as a thematic element.