Dahell is happening in Kiev

    I did quite enjoy reading D3's posts about this, it's good to hear a more informed opinion rather than hysteria. Also very interesting how quickly this has evolved way past mere clashes between police and protesters, and now we're looking at the risk of full-scale war. Amazing how history can be made.


    That said, I'm pretty sure those photos of the civilians and soldiers living in harmony are propaganda, lol.

    No they're from seperate Instagram accounts;


    http://instagram.com/p/lC8tCoyk4b/#

    http://instagram.com/p/lDD5sSP22E/

    http://instagram.com/p/lDJNRNuwkN/

    http://instagram.com/p/lAD9J2zaij/


    Generally most of the population welcome them as protectors, so there's a lot of photos being taking with them since their identity's are masked.


    Some aren't so welcoming, like this Ukrainian:


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    "Where are you from?" "Are you from 810'th?" "Fuck off and solve your problems at home!"


    RT's propaganda has been in overdrive recently, I don't really pay much attention to it and neither do any Russians for that matter. Though believe it or not, it's the third most watched news network in the Uk after BBC and Sky...!

    Well it's not institutions voices during a conflict or people in photo with russian soldiers that makes a country opinion. It's a national referendum to see if yes or not ukrainians want to see russian military on their ground and their independance; but you understand why it's difficult. We are far from the people will and what should be democracy to be honest.


    Still, i think this is the conflict that has been the most followed by internet in history, that's pretty weird

    Quote from Thrik

    Looks like those photos came from Russia's RT.com, dubbed the 'Putin Propaganda Network', lmao.


    http://www.businessinsider.com/rt-coverage-of-ukraine-2014-3


    I find it pretty ironic that the most reliable news source in the USA is a Kremlin-funded network XD


    Also, Abby Martin <3

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    I like RT and it's good that she demonstrates their editorial independence and all that... but.

    "Military intervention is never the answear."

    Really? I can think of plenty of theoretical and historical scenarios were intervention is the answear.

    I wouldn't dismiss intervention on that hard line.

    Quote from D3ads

    It just makes Russia's image look bad, especially so soon after the Olympics.

    Frankly, i don't think that people that care found Russia's image improved by the olympics.I don't want to sound rude since it's your country, but it's a total joke the amount of money that was spent to build a desert's cathedral, massive cleansing of stray animals (like in China two years ago) and sorry if i stereotype, but I'm sure they didn't mind too much in building in a sustainable way.

    Then we could also talk about organizational problems -sure there always are at these events- but i have a friend who came all over and she has been at several international skating competitions in the recent years and she had a lot to complain.


    Quote

    How long ago was France in Canada? Ukraine first became a state in 1991, apples and oranges. At the moment troops are in Crimea, we'll see if they move outside of the autonomous region...

    Actually, what so different. Or better, why shouldn't things move in the direction that was planned. It's just about right to think that for a young country it's much easier to bring these kind of changes, than where there's a long history, like Canada.Again i bring my experience in Namibia: it became a republic the same year as Ukraine (I remember because when i got there they were celebrating 20 years of indipendence), and as I wrote they adopted English as the official language

    I believe Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954. I think if the Ruskies would have given us parts of territory back in '91 they'd long be occupying the shit out of them. It's interesting that everybody is talking about "invasion", Russian Federation has never, per se, invaded anybody, they've just offered security. Kinda like ISAF in Afghan, hell, even US in Iraq.
    I guess the main difference here is that they're bloody efficient at what they do.
    But, it's hard for me to defend Russia. There's way, WAY more Russians in Estonia than in Crimea, at any point Putin could come a-knockin: either if EU proves too harsh or too lenient for Russian intentions.
    What I'm trying to ask is, even though I'm new to this community, anybody have a couch where I can crash?

    Quote from ESToomere

    Kinda like ISAF in Afghan, hell, even US in Iraq.

    Kinda completely not. Both of those (although in the case of Iraq it was via falsified documents) had broad support across the world. Both were carried out by international coalitions.

    Quote from Dejavo

    I like RT and it's good that she demonstrates their editorial independence and all that... but.

    "Military intervention is never the answear."

    Really? I can think of plenty of theoretical and historical scenarios were intervention is the answear.

    I wouldn't dismiss intervention on that hard line.


    Yeah she was a bit naive on that one, but just for speaking out her mind she gets my sympathy (Plus, her show is awesome). You would never see something like that in an american news network these days. Just look what happened to Amber Lyon. Other american channels may try to stage a similar rant now just to show how their journalists have "editorial independence" but it won't be the same


    Anyway, this is very circumstantial evidence but the idea doesn't surprise me:

    Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape

    http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/

    Quote from Vilham

    Kinda completely not. Both of those (although in the case of Iraq it was via falsified documents) had broad support across the world. Both were carried out by international coalitions.

    Depends on where you're looking at it.

    I find the western world largely biased towards the US.

    Russia has been the "great evil" before sliced bread, difference with the US being that they don't give a fuck and MOSTLY don't hide it.

    Quote from ESToomere

    Kinda completely not. Both of those (although in the case of Iraq it was via falsified documents) had broad support across the world. Both were carried out by international coalitions.


    Depends on where you're looking at it.

    I find the western world largely biased towards the US.

    Russia has been the "great evil" before sliced bread, difference with the US being that they don't give a fuck and MOSTLY don't hide it.


    No it really doesn't, it wasn't only the western world that oked afgan and iraq.


    Russia was the great evil. The communist murdered more people than Hitler for fucks sake.


    Russia is a "democracy" that has had its law changed to let the same guy run for the same office beyond what was legally allowed and used a clause to blatently side step the entire principle of democracy, that imprisons political rivals, that has pretty much only state run media, that despite having its own separatist movements that are killed by the Russian state and who quite clearly doesn't give a damn about self determination hypocritically invades another country to "protect the rights of Russian speaking citizens and self determination" when no one has even died and aren't under any current threat of being repressed.


    I mean seriously... I know the world isn't black and white, that western countries carry out some pretty fucked up stuff. But it pales in comparison to how Russia would rule the world if it was a dominate super power.

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