Whatever happened to Insurgency Mod

When I say 'mod' I think 'modification or total conversion of an existing game which is required to play it'. When I say 'indie game' I think 'standalone game that can be enjoyed without relying on any other games being installed'. It can get blurry especially when it comes to Steam, but I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can get hold of the game without having to buy or install any other games it's an independent release.

I would say that 90% of Source mods don't fit in your definition of what a mod is, the only ones that fit are those CS zombie and deatmatch mods and map packs for HL, Portal or L4D.

It seems like the true definition is that if the engine was made by one of the AAA developers it's modding, if not it's it's Indie, but they are all still modifying an existing engine.

NS is another good example on how it's all just semantics.

It just seems pointless to distinguish between modding and indie unless you're creating a new engine from scratch.

Oh it's definitely all semantics, which is why it's important to use the right term in the right circumstances.

I don't think you can really describe something which is released completely standalone as a mod, that's what the term 'indie game' is used for because it's just that: an independent release. Whether it uses a pre-existing engine or not, it's released independently from any other game thus is a de facto full-blown game release. If we start labelling anything using an existing engine as a mod we'd have to start describing Mortal Kombat, Gears of War, Enslaved, and Mirror's Edge all as Unreal Tournament 3 mods.

A mod is something which out-and-out requires another game to be present for it to be playable. The exact mechanism of this can vary, from literally using the original game as the platform (ie: something which changes the core files) to some kind of system that allows games to be independently built on top of the original game's engine. However, it's the reliance on having that original game — whether it's purchased separately through Steam or bundled with the mod — that makes it a mod.

When I said modding is dead I didn't really mean in the sense that the practical industry of modding is dead — clearly modding always has been and always will be an invaluable way for people to develop professional skills, and that's in large part what MapCore is all about. What I meant was that modding as a way of successfully releasing a game is dead because nowadays mods just don't really take off, whereas indie games typically have much better chances even if they're not free.

Man I'm almost confusing myself re-reading the above. I am sorry.

The darkness looks like max payne HD

Quote from D3ads

Thanks a lot for posting those jaboo, I agree with Minos.. that map is just dripping with atmosphere! Did you make many country specific textures? ie Serbian and Croatian signs, graffiti, propaganda etc I'd love to see that.

AGRRRH.. Why does everything set in Eastern Europe have to be like Stalker? There are literally hundreds of people on Moddb who insist on posting "that looks/feels/reminds me of Stalker" on Raindrop's page.. or anything else that's set in Eastern Europe.. and it's really annoying. It's like saying The Darkness feels like Max Payne because it's set in New York...

just get a soviet mail order bride already, this obsession is becoming tiresome.

Hey, D3 is MapCore's resident Eastern European enthusiast — respec'!

I think it's kind of fair to compare it to STALKER because it was probably a major source of inspiration being about as far as most people's familiarity with Eastern Europe actually goes, and aesthetically it does look very similar. There's a general perception that the area is permanently engulfed in foggy, overcast weather, which is STALKER's iconic look but one that isn't necessarily accurate.

You should port all the content over to Episode Two and make some awesome fights with it, don't let practically finished content go to waste! (Or give me all the art and vmfs and I'll do it )

oooh idea! MapCore challenge: take the VMF / art and make a single player map out of it. No new brushes or props allowed, just add gameplay scripting.

Quote from Thrik

Man I'm almost confusing myself re-reading the above. I am sorry.

That's was my point actually, It's all a big mess, it would be better if we didn't made the separation between a mod and a indie game. By your own definition the only difference is in the distribution of the games (the need to have the game the mod is based on installed), it I start a mod and later a acquire a license to the engine that allows me to distribute the game as a stand-alone product I suddenly stop being a modder to become a indie developer, but the work I'm doing is still the same, so is the game.

It seems that not even wikipedia has a clear definition of what indie games are:

Quote

Independent video games (commonly referred to as indie games) are video games created by individuals or small teams without video game publisher financial support. Indie games often focus on innovation and rely on digital distribution.

The problem with this definition is that almost every mod fits in the description of indie, so following this we could say that modding is a sub category of indie development that has it's own subcategories (like total conversion, map pack, add-on, patch, etc).

BTW I hope that it doesn't look as if I'm trying to push a POV, I'm just really enjoying having this discussion

Mods can also mean forum moderators

and mods from the 1960s

what a stupid fucking tangent this thread took

Hey sick, my roof shingles and windows are in there.

Quote from Thrik

When I say 'mod' I think 'modification or total conversion of an existing game which is required to play it'. When I say 'indie game' I think 'standalone game that can be enjoyed without relying on any other games being installed'. It can get blurry especially when it comes to Steam, but I think the general rule of thumb is that if you can get hold of the game without having to buy or install any other games it's an independent release.

Exacly how I see it too

Also, mods are free, while indie games are sold (or free, but have another source of income like subscriptions, or micro transactions).

...red orchestra, counter strike.

Yes and they were also released as stand alone thus turned into something else then a mod

but... but... sauce engine

RO, CS and DoD are the typical examples of mods ceasing to be mods by having a retail release. I know you were around back then, remember the endless rants from pissed off players that now had to shell out some dough for the game, and how the mod teams had sold out? Valve even gave you the game for free if you already had it on Steam...

i was just pointing out that mods don't stop being mods even if they get to be retail. mods are modifications of an engine, indie games are from scratch (commercial or not).