Finding a mod team worth your while 101

I tried starting a mod. Had all all the staff I'd ever need, but we just couldn't find a coder willing to invest the time or effort, whichw as a crying shame. It seems your mod is basically screwed unless the leader is the coder.

Not true, my mod has a very good coder, who is dedicated... so it's just about the same.

yeah but you need a really dedicated coder to get it on the road.

coder as leader\co-leader is probably the best.

Quote from Schmung

I tried starting a mod. Had all all the staff I'd ever need, but we just couldn't find a coder willing to invest the time or effort, whichw as a crying shame. It seems your mod is basically screwed unless the leader is the coder.

It is still a crying shame ... After TS 2.2 im sure we will have it all figured out

Quote from Schmung

I tried starting a mod. Had all all the staff I'd ever need, but we just couldn't find a coder willing to invest the time or effort, whichw as a crying shame. It seems your mod is basically screwed unless the leader is the coder.

You are right, a mod is screwed if you can't find a coder. It is however possible to survive. After the first public release of Sands of War(http://www.sandsofwar.net) we also ran into the problem that our old coder left. We searched and searched but were unable to find another coder.

We could have stopped there, just as so many other mods have done before us, that however did just not fit in the SoW spirit. So we continued on and tried to add lots of great things in all the other divisions. SoW beta 1.1 and 1.2 were made completely without a coder.

We did not have a coder for those versions, but that did not hold us back from improving SoW a lot. We got better models, maps, sounds and everything else. People noticed that and in the end a good coder found us:)

We were so lucky that our first coder had completed the code base for the mod, so that we could just improve the content. If however a mod have not even been release, then I understand that it might be tougher to do what we did.

Quote from Zacker

You are right, a mod is screwed if you can't find a coder. It is however possible to survive. After the first public release of Sands of War(http://www.sandsofwar.net) we also ran into the problem that our old coder left. We searched and searched but were unable to find another coder.

We could have stopped there, just as so many other mods have done before us, that however did just not fit in the SoW spirit. So we continued on and tried to add lots of great things in all the other divisions. SoW beta 1.1 and 1.2 were made completely without a coder.

We did not have a coder for those versions, but that did not hold us back from improving SoW a lot. We got better models, maps, sounds and everything else. People noticed that and in the end a good coder found us:)

We were so lucky that our first coder had completed the code base for the mod, so that we could just improve the content. If however a mod have not even been release, then I understand that it might be tougher to do what we did.

And thus we find the position my mod is in. Our coder left us for WoW.

It is alsow better if you know your team personal.

So you can discus things private and descent.

Than alsow you know that your team really wants to work on the mod.

And a other thing is that you must support your teammates.

If they are stuck on something you could help them so they wont be to about it and wont quit so easlly.

If you know you can count on someone , you know that your mod is strong and you will believe more and more in it.

Quote from Nysuatro

It is alsow better if you know your team personal. So you can discus things private and descent.

Than alsow you know that your team really wants to work on the mod.

And a other thing is that you must support your teammates.

If they are stuck on something you could help them so they wont be to about it and wont quit so easlly.

If you know you can count on someone , you know that your mod is strong and you will believe more and more in it.

It is difficult to garner relationships amongst team members, although I agree that this is importaint.

If you're going to join a team, ask the leader why the other members have joined, and if it's due more to interest in the project or if it's simply because the offer was made. If you feel like members are not in it due to interested, then you should re-evaluate your discision to work for the team.

I know I wouldn't have joined a mod team unless I know atleast a few of the team members, cause then I always know abit about how they work, what they can do etc..

How bout fortress forever? You think they will do a good job capturing the essence of TFC? I would like to map for this mod.

I"d kill for the time to make a map for FF.

I only join teams in which I know some people and how they work etc or if the mod already had some releases and was succesful at it.

Its also not just a matter of quality but also how the mod is being run and how the members are, they might completely not fit your personality or so which wont work out in the end anyway

I dont join something if it just looks good and pro, they need playable releases prefferably. Too many mods release great art work or maybe a playable demo but they never seem to find the time and effort after that anymore to actually make an entire mod out of it..

Since the last year or 2 its getting increasingly common to act like a company while theyre actualy just a mod. Absolutely horrible, last thing on earth Im going to join is a group of wannabes...

That point can be argued... considering the time and effort that a modern total conversion demands, how can you possibly coordinate enough people without running the organization "like a company"?

I think that mismanagement spells the death of most failed mods.

We may just have an opening for a level designer for FF soon, and obviously mapcore has some of the best talent so the chances are this is the place we'll be looking for recruits Stay tuned.

Oh, and our second map texture artist has disappeared without a trace. What is it with those dudes? Someone gimme one!

This is going to go a little off topic, sorry

Reply to the guy above

Long time ago mods used to be made by groups of people, friends, doing something they like together

Thats cool, I used to work like that, we made mods like that and they had great success. We didnt quit, we succeeded but we didnt had all the fancy names and titles. It worked cause you felt eachother, you were on the same line on what to make and how. No need for a lot of communication, it just flowed.

While nowadays theres a decent sized group that are wannabe crap. Look at the titles they give themself sometimes. Lead Material Artist ? Hell, we dont even had such person in my company, nor the in the last 2 I worked for but sure a mod needs one. Best one i came across till now was a mod with -9-members and the coolest name was "Senior Lead Project Manager"

Give me a break

You need 1 leader and thats it. You dont need to name people lead or whatever, itll only destroy the "group of friends" atmosphere, youre all equal. You dont work for a boss when youre in a mod, you work for the group project.

I already have to do all day long what my boss tells me, last thing I would want to do is listen to yet another boss who tells me what to do when I get home and try to do my hobby.

And then the names, Blabla Studios. Blabla Inc. Blabla Games, etc. They are just a team, nothing more and they make a mod not games...

Next, if you finally do apply to them they ask you to send trough your CV/Resume to a [email protected] adress and they copy paste some fancy job requirements from a real company...

Its not a job, it doesnt pay, the resume stuff is utterly stupid as a simple mail would suffice already and the giant job requirements are idiotic and sometimes longer and more complex than those of real companies

If you do continue at this point youll be confronted with a "trying to be pro" thing. First of all youre getting a makeshift NDA, non disclosure agreement (like you would want to do anything with the ideas anyway + the NDA's they give are almost never legally correct so..) and after that you sometimes get a "real" contract (wooow)

Next to that they often try to chat cool and email cool. Perfect sentences, perfect english, giant email signatures (""""company"""" this, lead that, contact here) and nice "this email is confidential, do not blabla"

I dont even have an NDA where I work now, for all places I worked we never typed in nice english, we didnt had or barely have email signatures and neither confidential email crap...But hey, some mods seems to need it...

And thats what I mean with wannabe

Type of mods I would avoid at all costs..

And none of that happened a few years ago..

Yet lots of great and extensive mods were made back then

All these (virtual) studio names for MOD teams also started to annoy me a couple of months back, but NDAs and contracts? lol I didn't know it has become this bad

This has to do with how the whole MOD scene is developing and how companies discovered MOD developers as main ressource for new talent and as a cheap, easy way to extend the lifetime of their products.

So while companies support MOD developers, the competition in the communities becomes bigger, MOD teams try to gather talent by acting mature and professional (just like a real company !!) to finish their project and most importantly to stand out, so they get hired.

I hope you see the connection, making fun games is not the main motivation for many people anymore, although I am sure there are still several projects in development out there, who just do it for the hell of it.

It's funny... when you don't try to reach something but just do something because you like it, you'll have more chance to actually reach what other so desperately are after.

I noticed the company names and acting too. Sometimes it's even just one mapper who pretends to be a studio on his site...

And then those that try to license top-of-the-notch engines without any experience with releasing mods... or the kids 'that are going to create a MMORPG'...

First of all people with talent that are looking for a mod nowadays rate mods by there quality. Models, textures, levels... But also by the organisation. They want a good looking site, a perfect organisation, quality. There are 100th of mods out there, and people want some security when they dedicate their time and work to a project. They want to see some proves of what the team is capable of and they need to be confident. That's one of the main problems. People aren't confident in the mods anymore, and thats mostly because of the amount of mods that never saw the light and died. They want to know how things work, who is leading what etc.

I would say it's the not the mod teams but it's the guys looking for a mod team that expect this kinda things of the mod team. They want to work in a "proffesional" atmosphere... Also with the amount of mods it's sometimes difficult to find the right talented people. Lots of mods see eachother as the enemy and concurrents. If you want to attract some talent you simply need to have some nice looking presentation email or people aren't interested. Well that's what I have expierenced in the past when recruiting for Insurgency. Also with the amount of work becoming bigger and bigger we just can't work without somekinda organisation and departments. There is so much to be done and the quality has to be up to the expectations of the public and the guys looking for a mod team.

I have an example of someone on this very forums, who acted like really arrogant first time I emailed him... He wanted to know about our workflow? etc Who leads what. He expected us to change things in the team how they worked now... Actually he was asking us to change things for him. This is totally nuts, but sadly it's reality. People are so demanding. It actually became a bit crazy.

I don't say every guy I recruited was acting like that but I could perfectly name a couple of them. What I noticed is that real professional people who already work in the gaming industry are much kinder and less demanding then the wannabe ones (in the case here above that was no true )

Modding isn't just about the gameplay anymore. You almost need a real PR stuff going on. And this is kinda sad, because what really makes a game is the gamplay behind the graphics and the presentation.

I agree about the NDA and contract stuff though. I'm glad Insurgency doesnt have that bullshit. Although I got to be honest it was planned in the past. Because of security reasons. We already had someone hacking the ftp etc. I don't think it's very funny to have a guy leaking/deleting all the stuff and effort a whole team made.

Another thing, although we've had some of these things going on, the Insurgency team is one the closest team I ever worked for. We are all great friends and we never had any problem with any of the members. It's a really great atmosphere to work in and everybody knows everybody... And nobody get's bossed around. The "leaders" are mostly there to ask advice and to keep things moving when needed. It's not like they have more to say then someone else on the team. We have about 40 people in the Insurgency team, 20 of them really active. And I'm not saying this to attract more people or whatever, cause at this moment we don't need any more talent.

The two hardest things to find in a modteam are coders and animators. Without a good coder you're basicly screwed.

Delaz you better read our forums because we have a NDA at Insurgency And that is good so. It makes sure that the content that is produced by the members is 'property' of Insurgency. So if a member would left the Mod in anger he cant take his stuff and bring the whole project to fall. Its no problem to use it as reference or for portfolios tho.

I dont see this as a bad thing. The amount of work and time that is needed for a Mod specialy a Total Conversion is so HUGE that it would piss many many people off if a single person could destroy everything in a moment of anger.

Friends. I think that's indeed one of the things that tend to be forgotten nowadays. I'm doing some modelling for a mod because their leader is a friend of mine and asked me to do some modelling. It's just the kind of things you do for each other to help each other out. No need for contracts or big showoffs and all. I know him and 'm confident he's capable of pulling that mod off, no matter how long it'll take him.

So, yeah, people lost confidence in mods and that's mostly to blame to the thousands of idea's and doomed-to-fail mods that pop up everywhere. I think it's twisting the original intention of modding. That's sad, because it's really all just for fun, isn't it? Ok, perhaps you see it as an opportunity to get into the industry but even then, you have to have fun doing it, otherwise I see no reason to get into the games bussiness.

Just my 2 cents.