Left4Dead 2

Quote from Defrag

I think calling the original 'barren' is way, way wide of the mark. Each campaign takes roughly an hour to play through; 4 campaigns = 4 hours of gameplay right there. Some single player games last 4 hours start to finish while lacking any kind of replayability.

so just because stealing is popular, it is automatically legalized? and even if that statement wasn't a logical fallacy, i still wouldn't expect this sort of dick move pulled from a company of valve's stature.

also the issues you mentioned are not reasons enough for a new game; they are reasons for an update to some of the systems used by l4d (you should know this as a programmer).

a clue towards the conception of l4d2 in the first place may be that the original l4d wasn't made by the core valve team, but by turtle rock studios (who valve decided to buy at some point for whatever ridiculous reason in their heads).

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so just because stealing is popular, it is automatically legalized? and even if that statement wasn't a logical fallacy, i still wouldn't expect this sort of dick move pulled from a company of valve's stature.

Come again? (didn't understand that.)

Anyway, the point that I was trying to get across is that despite its apparent lack of content compared to the likes of TF2, L4D is a fantastic game and has delivered the most fun gaming times I've had in years. Maybe I'm just some sort of weirdo who latches onto certain games in a big way, though (that makes all of my L4D buddies weirdos too, though ).

Furthermore, I think quite a lot of folk have got used to the fact that Valve goes above and beyond what most other companies commit to in terms of supporting their games. Over the years, the amount of stuff they've added to the likes of CS, TFC, TF2 and various other titles is bordering on the ridiculous, so the moment they don't show such a commitment, folk are very quick to criticise.

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also the issues you mentioned are not reasons enough for a new game; they are reasons for an update to some of the systems used by l4d (you should know this as a programmer).

The matchmaking stuff, certainly. The rest of the things I mentioned are gameplay problems that are non-trivial to fix. Valve has made several good tweaks to the gameplay after community feedback, so I'm not going to criticise them too much in that respect (e.g. booming ignores commons, smoker's tongue fixes and so on).

Btw even if I didn't purchase L4D I joined the L4D2 Boycott steam group which reached more than 15 000 members. The group is on top 50 now and represent more than 10% of the official L4D official group. I joined coz I think that L4D2 is clearly dedicated to consoles. Consequently consoles kill my cpu. Look: Crytek made a engine especially for consoles (but isn't it what did you expect for CE3!?), Splash damage is currently working on Brink and oblige theirs employees to play with f***ing paddles... Seriously wtf !? I still want play Pc games not Consoles games adapted on Pc! And seeing VALVe (one of my favorite company), always dedicated to Pc falling on Microsoft and their f***ing partnership with EA trap make me really angry! Consoles is bullshit, playing games with paddle give me headache.

If you want your favorite developers to be around in 5 years you shouldn’t curse consoles, making great AAA games these days usually takes allot of time and money, without 80% or so of the possible market buying your game it’s hard to justify the outgoing cost. At least you still get a PC version

It's here to stay so get used to it if I where you!

Heh, wow this thread is still going. To be honest then I think people are overreacting a bit too much over this. Sure, its kinda uncommon for Valve to release a full on sequel a year after the originals release, and I would definitely have preferred them to take a crack on a new IP instead, but to flip out like this with boycotts is going a bit too far in my opinion. I'm sure Valve wouldn't release something if they didn't think it would be up to their standard.

Plus if releasing L4D2 means them getting the extra monies needed to make Episode 3 and Half-Life 3 as amazing as possible then I'm totally for that

Now that I think about it, then Valve has really done themselves a disservice by being as generous as they have with the community for this long, was just a matter of time before people were gonna start biting the hand that feeds them.

Quote from 2d-chris

If you want your favorite developers to be around in 5 years you shouldn’t curse consoles, making great AAA games these days usually takes allot of time and money, without 80% or so of the possible market buying your game it’s hard to justify the outgoing cost. At least you still get a PC version It's here to stay so get used to it if I where you!

Sorry Chris but I can't swallow all of this. Sorry If I'm going out of the main subject but I think that all of what I quoted belong "Crytek though" instead of you. Crysis sold well but Crytek has been victim of massive piracy...

Well, commercially, we had hopes that were not met. But the real expectations were actually met. As a developer we made a profit, so we're happy. Critically, we achieved goals. The [reviews] were slightly under the critique-level that we wanted to have, but that's life. We may have failed a little here and there, but overall Crysis I would say it didn't do excellent, but it did good. - Cevat Yerli

But instead of to resolve the main problem Crytek go round of it!

When Cevat said we would not create new PC exclusives, he was referring to any new projects we will start in the future. Of course Warhead has been under development for quite some time, and we had no desire or intention to disappoint our loyal PC fans. So, after some careful consideration, we decided to continue our support for the PC Crysis franchise with this release. But yes, all new franchises we develop in the future will be created with a cross platform strategy in mind. - Harald Seeley

Consequently, Crytek develop new franchises for cross platforms (which mean pc and consoles). I didn't mean that making new license from a cross platforms engine is bad or whatever, by far, I think that this is brilliant for casual gamer. But I doubt that Crytek will be protect from console piracy as far as I know.

By example here hows my neighbor use to play for free on Xbox360 (french): link. And I'm sure that there is other way to do the same whatever with the whole platforms!

So I think that switch and make pc games for console will not resolve the problem that "My favorites company" have. I don't blame Crytek I love them I love playing their game and I'm faithfully their customer. I just don't want to see the game industry to oblige us to buy console and expensive game. That's why I gave my two cents to yell VALVe keep going with your success and keep making awesome games but keep cool and don't try to make me believe that L4D2 is a separate game from L4D. The whole content will be compatible with the first so L4D2 is a mod! Why are you trying to sell it to me!? Moreover when you talk about a sequel of a game we used to think new sequel = new engine = new gameplay features whereas new sequel = new weapons = new skins and maps and... Bullshit!

Hopefully L4D is the only VALVe's games I didn't purchase because of the matchmaking which were bullshit when I played beta...

Quote from Seldoon182

Btw even if I didn't purchase L4D I joined the L4D2 Boycott steam group which reached more than 15 000 members. The group is on top 50 now and represent more than 10% of the official L4D official group. I joined coz I think that L4D2 is clearly dedicated to consoles. Consequently consoles kill my cpu. Look: Crytek made a engine especially for consoles (but isn't it what did you expect for CE3!?), Splash damage is currently working on Brink and oblige theirs employees to play with f***ing paddles... Seriously wtf !? I still want play Pc games not Consoles games adapted on Pc! And seeing VALVe (one of my favorite company), always dedicated to Pc falling on Microsoft and their f***ing partnership with EA trap make me really angry! Consoles is bullshit, playing games with paddle give me headache.

Got overreaction? L4D was developed for the PC and 360 and I have absolutely no problem with it on the PC. The controls and gameplay are fine. What makes you think it won't be the case with L4D 2?

Anyway let's face it, these 'boycott' groups mean nothing. The main way to take a stand against something is to not buy the product. However, I'm willing to bet that half of the people in that group end up buying L4D 2 anyway (in the same way that everyone used to bitch every week about every single CS patch, yet CS got more and more popular and the folk raging on forums continued playing).

Just out of interest, how many hours do you all think you played Left 4 Dead up to this point?

Because I really think that some people here are overreacting. "this game should have been 10-20$ at most" .... I don't know about that... I played it for probably well over 200 hours. A movie costs 20-30$ and lasts 2 hours on average. Other games last 10 hours and you pay a 60$.... so I think the pricing was justified. I also think making a sequel was justified by Valve, but I do agree that the timing of this is really poor because they haven't yet exhausted all the potential the first L4D still has to offer.

I think the main problem is the "2", if they would have called it an expansion pack, instead of a sequel, i think almost no one would complain about, just look at S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky, Crysis Warhead, Red Alert 3: Uprising, World in conflict: Soviet Assault, etc etc. L4D2 definitely feels more like an expansion than a new game.

Quote from Defrag

Got overreaction? L4D was developed for the PC and 360 and I have absolutely no problem with it on the PC. The controls and gameplay are fine. What makes you think it won't be the case with L4D 2?

Defrag you know that VALVe's games are first made with pc for pc and then exported for x360. Source is from Goldsrc and get its origins from computers. The ability to compile for the x360 platform has been implanted before the release of the Orangebox. I don't have any problem neither with controls nor the gameplay with L4D, what I mean is that VALVe has been traped by their partnerships and looks like they're going to release the content of L4D2 as commercial mostly to honor their contract than for who made VALVe. I mean you and me the game community!

Maybe this is what you call "overreaction" but this is necessary I think to warm games company that we are not dumb at all.

Btw the group have now overclassed the official Portal group and Pcgamer group with more than 17 600 members.

Quote from Seldoon182

what I mean is that VALVe has been traped by their partnerships and looks like they're going to release the content of L4D2 as commercial mostly to honor their contract than for who made VALVe. I mean you and me the game community!

Didn't the interview on rockpapershotgun show that they developped L4D2 because they felt it had lots of unused potential? I can understand that, I mean, L4D is a great concept, it's the first multiplayer game I've enjoyed in years, and it sure feels like there's much possibilities to explore from there. I'd be a developer at Valve and the whole team would be aware of the potential of a new version of the game, I'd be pleased to work on a sequel right away.

I think people overreact indeed, simply because they're afraid of having to pay twice for a copy of the same game. But in the end, they'll realize it's based on the same premises but much different and they'll buy it and play L4D and L4D2 for their distinct experiences. I also agree with the points made about biting the hand that feeds you. You people trusted Valve for years, so just put your faith in it just a while longer and take your stance when the game comes out, then make a thoughtful decision. Joining a group that basically says "The game you've been developing and we know very little about is offending! We won't buy it!" which only effect could be to spoil the developers' motivation is pointless, immature and sad. Don't scream before you get hurt, sissies.

Did you watch the interview before the release of L4D!?

VALVe made a lots of fix and only one update... This is worst than Counter-Strike: Source and even Day of Defeat: Source!

Quote from kleinluka

Just out of interest, how many hours do you all think you played Left 4 Dead up to this point?Because I really think that some people here are overreacting. "this game should have been 10-20$ at most" .... I don't know about that... I played it for probably well over 200 hours. A movie costs 20-30$ and lasts 2 hours on average. Other games last 10 hours and you pay a 60$.... so I think the pricing was justified. I also think making a sequel was justified by Valve, but I do agree that the timing of this is really poor because they haven't yet exhausted all the potential the first L4D still has to offer.

My stats say 220 hours; I think it's probably quite a bit more.

Quote from Seldoon182

Did you watch the interview before the release of L4D!?

Nope. I bought the game because my mates were raving about it, not because of any kind of promise in an obscure video.

Did you watch that video prior to purchasing it, or are you just using it to throw fuel on the fire?

I already tell I didn't purchase it.

Quote from Seldoon182

I already tell I didn't purchase it.

So why are you even joining a group that says you'll boycott the sequel when you stayed away from the first?

What Corwin and Defrag said...

lol, why spend so much energy on something when you didn't even buy the game? That's just bizarre.

Legolas what does your elf nose smell?

I smell a troll.

Quote from 2d-chris

If you want your favorite developers to be around in 5 years you shouldn’t curse consoles, making great AAA games these days usually takes allot of time and money, without 80% or so of the possible market buying your game it’s hard to justify the outgoing cost. At least you still get a PC version It's here to stay so get used to it if I where you!

I'd expect better of you being European, claiming 80% of the market is consoles!

90% of all online gaming in the US is PC according to an NPD report last year, and L4D certainly counts in that group. It's far bigger in Europe, more and more the further east you go.

I personally didn't buy L4D because when it came out I didn't have a computer capable of running it. Now, with the rumors that L4D2'll include L4D1's campaigns, I probably won't ever.