a doom3 compile

[wacko]

the second group of picks is a great example of where doom 3 lighting has some issues. where its hard to have softlight effect where its not dark and its not all lighten up its just in the middle. I do not think you should have to spend a lot of time with lighting. I mean I think one should focus more on the map...

Another thing lighting has some wierd issues with is Shaders... Section_Ei8ht try making water in the game and then putting a light on it and then you will get some wierd ass shit.

[KungFuSquirrel]

doom 3 is all well and good, but the more I mess with it, the more I find out its limitations. This will probably be the only compiles I do with the doom3 engine. Once Source is released, Source all the way (Unless of course, X-Ray is open for modding, then X-Ray would be the engine of choice).

I'd be interested to know specifically what is bothering you. A lot of the 'limits' I've seen people complain about can either be easily worked around/with, or are simply design decisions that don't constitute a limit at all.

[Section_Ei8ht]

well, 20 bucks says that that post was just me trying to come up with a reason why my dumbass cant get the lighting to satisfy me.

But the one thing that does bother me is the lighting passes on each surface. If I want to make a room with soft lighting, non pitch black shadows, I need to have two lights (correct me if I'm wrong). One that casts shadows, and a dimmer one that does not. Only problem with this is that now every surface in that room has two lighting passes on it (except a few, depending on the map). If I want to add more detailed lighting, I'm approaching three to four, and maybe even five lighting passes on a surface. In a big area such as the large room, my frame rate dropped to mad, and I'm on a 3 gig with a 9800xt, and in terms of playability, I'm gonna want people on low end systems to play this with great framerates.

Granted, I can counter this by splitting the brushes and texturing them so they do not repeat so the engine does not break them up, so that is not the largest issue.

I know that doom3 was made for a dark, scary, sci-fi enviornment. But even those scenarios have shadows that have an umbra and a penumbra. That is probably what is bothering me the most. Granted, if used the the right context, such as doom3 and im sure quake 4, it can look extremely well. Maybe its just that I cannot seem to find a threshold in my room that can get that kind of a look. Perhaps I'm just missing something in the lighting options (i thought maybe fallout would add a nice soft shadow, but that does not seem to be doing anything to my lights) that could make a soft shadow. And if not, then I can understand why there are no soft shadows. I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that because the engine is pure dynamic lighting, the processing required to make soft shadows would be too great to blend well with the rest of the rendering that needs to be done.

I also am missing the texture light feature, but I understand the ways to get around that and make textures look as though they support the feature.

Maybe, KungFu, you could give me some pointers or help me see what I'm missing when it comes to the doom 3 engine, because I know you are working with it right now. Actually now that I write out what I think is a limitation on the engine, I know am seeing that its not really that big of a list of limitations. I guess its more just wishful thinking. Doom 3 is a really powerful engine, dont get me wrong, it just seems that with so much emphasis on the lighting passes, It seems to me that the creation of a very large outdoor map with multiple light sources (perhaps a map that takes place in a city street at dusk, so you still have the hint of red sunlight, but the street lights and surrounding shop lights are still on) is near impossible.

Granted Doom3 was not designed for this purpose, and I completely respect that. Just seems that the idea for expansion into a different mode of storytelling seems a bit limited.

Sorry for the long post. I'm sure some of you are sleeping right now.

[DD]

From my brief stunt of Doom 3 level design I never found a limit to the number of lights you can have in a room. What I learned, and KungFu might confirm this, is there is only a limit to the number of intersecting light volumes.

The reason? Doom 3 is totally fucking dynamic and it's awesome because of so. You can also use large volumes of light with very bright settings, the problem is that you get these white spots in the center that are totally blinding. I believe there may be some texture you can swap out in the lighting to fix this... I was unable to find this texture.

BTW KungFU, we play Quake 3 daily at the office. I hope Quake 4 multiplayer is Quake 3 with visual upgrades. Like CS:S to CS. Please lead me to believe Raven understands the reason people love Quake 3.

[OL]

i second dd, dont mess with a good thing. just change the bullets in the netcode to client side! that was the worst thing about q3dm

[wacko]

I am in saying my time in the doom 3 editor. I see some issues with the dynamicness( I don't think thats ever a word) of the lights in the sence that they seem to have issue with lighting and area up if it has any sort of protruding edge.. it just cuts the light off right there. I can show an example of this if needed... Then again I don't know anything about mapping.

[OL]

wacko?

what the hell was that?

[Minos]

BTW KungFU, we play Quake 3 daily at the office. I hope Quake 4 multiplayer is Quake 3 with visual upgrades. Like CS:S to CS. Please lead me to believe Raven understands the reason people love Quake 3.

from what I've seen (I dont think they were ingame shots) it'll look totally different, they are going for a realistic looking rather than the other quake series style. Correct if I'm wrong kungfu

[Section_Ei8ht]

I am in saying my time in the doom 3 editor. I see some issues with the dynamicness( I don't think thats ever a word) of the lights in the sence that they seem to have issue with lighting and area up if it has any sort of protruding edge.. it just cuts the light off right there. I can show an example of this if needed... Then again I don't know anything about mapping.

I know what you mean. Thats why I have been using the idea of making a very dim light that covers the whole room and does not cast shadows. Turns that pitch black cut off into a softer shadow.

I guess I just learned mapping and grew up on games that did not have the sudden pitch black shadow. Just kinda looks wierd to me at certain times.

[Section_Ei8ht]

Heres what I'm getting at. Here are the same pics with r_showlightcount 1 and r_showtris 1

I dont mind the corridor, its small enough so that the fps is still spectacular, and the visportals in the door keep it that way.

But the large room has a total of 5 lights. Two for the window light (one sunlight, one the non shadow casting light) and one above each doorway. As you can see, my light count is in the greens and blues, and it is my understanding that green is good, but blue should only be allowed sparingly.

[wacko]

thats the thing there shoudl be no reason for 5 lights to get a room lite up. Then again can't you have the actual glass itself for the window have some light ?? or create a new shader that refelcts the light in a better way ?

[Algor]

Looks very cool, I don't remember seeing a similar style in Doom 3.

No complaints except for the last set of pics with the orange lighting... I don't like the huge railings.. but thats more of a personal preference.

To me thin railings and trim (Like on doors) makes a map look like a lot of time went in to it.

Otherwise rock on

[Section_Ei8ht]

thanks, dude.

yeah, must be just me then. I think the thick railings fit the scene better because they are only about waist high ingame. Thin railings just didnt look right.

I'm working on the sub navagation section of the map (a room of similar size, only with more hallways leading out [For the content links]). I'll have some pictures this weekend.

[Edit] oh yeah, KungFu, if you continue to keep up on this thread, I tried to redo the patch meshes on the top of the pillars in the first picture from 3 subdivisions to seven. Maybe you are referring to something different, but I still get it looking exactally the same (looking like its made out of four subdivisons) with 7 subdivisions. Strange.

[csharp]

Really hot stuff..

[Section_Ei8ht]

Got the first section of the hallway that connects the two content areas finished (might tweak the lighting a bit, seems a bit harsh). Been awhile since a post, college life getting in the way.

And for those that understand the lighting pass concecpt of doom3, heres a tris 3 and lightcount 1 shot:

whatcha think?