My simulation of Debate Numero Uno

[TomWithTheWeather]

Yeah, it's basically a choice between the lesser of the two evils. The problem is, which is the least evil?

[Duff-e]

it makes me happy that ferret isnt some liberal art loving cry boy

[von*ferret]

Bush actually did touch on the Russian conflict when they were asked about how Putin was handling democracy in Russia now. Kerry didn't really respond to my knoledge about it at all. What really pissed me off was when Kerry kept pimping his 4 pt war plan, Bush never touched on it at all. Bush would've been smart to be like "the reason why this plan wont work is 1.) 2.) and 3.)" instead of taking it up the bum. Either way I'm voting for the lesser of two evils, bush. Kerry is a flaming moron.

[Urban]

its pretty funny how most people that read the debate.. think dubya did better.. or listened to it even... i guess the polls show people prefer style over substance... maybe we deserve john "hanoi" kerry...

his dnc speech

You see that flag up there. We call her Old Glory. The stars and stripes forever. I fought under that flag, as did so many of you here and all across our country. That flag flew from the gun turret right behind my head. It was shot through and through and tattered, but it never ceased to wave in the wind. It draped the caskets of men I served with and friends I grew up with. For us, that flag is the most powerful symbol of who we are and what we believe in. Our strength. Our diversity. Our love of country. All that makes America both great and good.

or.. maybe not...

[The Postman]

it makes me happy that ferret isnt some liberal art loving cry boy

Second warning Duffy, one more and you're banned. Got me?

its pretty funny how most people that read the debate.. think dubya did better.. or listened to it even... i guess the polls show people prefer style over substance... maybe we deserve john "hanoi" kerry...

First and foremost, come off it witht he "hanoi" Kerry bullshit. You sure as shit weren't in Vietnam, and you have no right to go after him in the way perhaps our fathers can. He came back, made his opinions known when that kind of opinion wasn't (and perhaps still isn't) very popular. Different war. Different time. Doesn't reflect whatsoever on the current situation. Your opinion of the debates reeks of personal favor to Bush. If Bush wins the election (fairly ) I'll be "hey, okay, that's what the American people want, and that's what they deserve." Not spouting rhetoric and yammering on using party slogans.

As for "style over substance." If by substance you mean name dropping, and repeating one's self like a windup toy, then by all means, substance won the day. However I think Kerry won the debate by being clearer in his ideas and not dodging nearly half as many questions as Bush did. Will this debate win him the election? Doubtfully. His campaign is run too poorly for that. I still don't especially like the man, but I came away from the debates a little bit more sure of him as a commander in chief.

[Duff-e]

that was a compliment....what are you talking about?

[Urban]

Different war. Different time.

hes the one that keeps brining it up.. something like 7 refrences to vietnam or his service in the debates from kerry... oh yeah.. and im reporting for duty

Doesn't reflect whatsoever on the current situation.

i guess that depends if you ask kerry or not..

Your opinion of the debates reeks of personal favor to Bush.

really? im biased?!.. thx for the news flash dan rather

and repeating one's self like a windup toy.

yep, kerry did alot of that.. he did * wrong.. blah blah blah

However I think Kerry won the debate

should i call someone biased?

[Teppesh]

Postman, I wonder if you have actually read the transcripts of the debate. If so you would see that the entire debate consisted of Kerry trying to bate Dubya'. Watching or listening to the debate you see that it had an effect but wasn't completley successfull, in that, Dubya' was able to stay on topic without turning the debate into a 'flame war'. The hard hitting stuff comes at the last debate and Bush knows it and Kerry took off his gloves way too early. When it comes to domestic issues Bush will tear apart Kerry's domestic policy, which will have serrious effects on the middle-america vote.

[Teppesh]

That is unless you like higher taxes, and believe that he can raise trillions of dollars from the rich, to both support the war and fund the

myriad of domestic programs he supports.

Yeah, sure. I believe it.

[RD]

Bush defeated Kerry, its as simple as that

[The Postman]

Bush defeated Kerry, its as simple as that

RD, Kerry whomped on Bush in the debates simply by being a better public speaker, not repeating himself verbatim nearly as much and actually answering more questions instead of dodging them.

Teppesh, I did watch the debates, I also read the transcripts. I think that Kerry won them, and so does a good 57% of the population. So you and Teppesh can go back to grumbling about the loss.

That is unless you like higher taxes, and believe that he can raise trillions of dollars from the rich, to both support the war and fund the

myriad of domestic programs he supports.

Yeah, sure. I believe it.

First off, don't even try to claim Bush is fiscally conservative. Enjoy your deficit. The tax cut that you cherish so much doesn't necessarily save you any money and is primarily for the rich. Good job slinging the "omg democrats raise taxes!!!!" though. Where do you think that money comes from anyhow? The magical money tree that grows on Sugar Mountain? Come on. Get some knowledge on policies and actual followthrough and then come back to this conversation.

[OL]

dont be a dick ol

-mike

[von*ferret]

If you think Kerry is fiscaly conservative either Postman you're ignorant. Its a fact that his domestic spending plans will either put the deficit deeper or simply keep it at where its at. The difference is Kerry just wants to spend money, where as Bush was trying to boost the economy by using a "loan" strategy.

Furthermore your little comment on the rich is bullshit. The top like 2% of the country pays for 60% of the country's taxes. So there is no reason why they shouldn't get some money back. Furthermore I've never been employed by a poor person, but I have by a rich person. So i'd rather have the people who know how to run business, have more money, so they can hire more people. Oh wait, this looks like a good fucking idea, nice job bush! (reagan)

[mikezilla]

you guys are treating this like footbal lol.

The only way you "win" a presedential debate is to change a voters mind into voting for your. As far as I can tell the debate clouded the undecideds minds more than it cleared them. I certainly didn't jump off the couch and declare either one worthy of my vote. To me it was pretty even across the board with more than a bit of name calling on both sides. Which to those of you who know who your voting for, make it easy for you to get behind them and declare them the victor. To me it just weakens them both as people.

What's interesting to me about Kerry, and this is a completely random side note. Is he faught in 'nam as infantry, the grit and the dirt. That was war one for him. War two for him will be going from the very bottom to the very top is he's elected. Wonder how that affects your judgement. I imagine he definitly has a better respect for the common soldier and the stakes of his life. More than I could hope to without sending a loved one into battle...

tweet.

[The Postman]

If you think Kerry is fiscaly conservative either Postman you're ignorant. Its a fact that his domestic spending plans will either put the deficit deeper or simply keep it at where its at. The difference is Kerry just wants to spend money, where as Bush was trying to boost the economy by using a "loan" strategy.

Furthermore your little comment on the rich is bullshit. The top like 2% of the country pays for 60% of the country's taxes. So there is no reason why they shouldn't get some money back. Furthermore I've never been employed by a poor person, but I have by a rich person. So i'd rather have the people who know how to run business, have more money, so they can hire more people. Oh wait, this looks like a good fucking idea, nice job bush! (reagan)

Did I ever suggest that Kerry is fiscally conservative? As a democrat of course he isn't. You call me ignorant? Get your partisan politics straight before you start mouthing off. I'd rather funnel money into our own nation than the money-pit that Iraq is becoming, but we can't do that. We need to stay there until it's done.

My comment on the rich? 60%? Where are you getting your numbers? Sounds like they're coming from the land of bullshit myself. Back that up and you'll have my apologies. My problem isn't so much a class war as it is that the tax cut takes advantage of how stupid a lot of the poor are. They see this wad of cash - "Oh boy, $300!" - and go "Hot damn, he's got mah vote!" It plays on the ignorant. Actually, that point's moot since a good portion of both campaigns has been an attempt to rope in the ignorant and ill-informed. "Flip-flop" and "No Blood for Oil" idiots rejoice! :roll:

Back on track though. Mikey's made some very good points. Especially with the clouding instead of clearing notion. I don't think anything new was particularly said. Although many of the swing states are finally steadying (Bush favor btw, latest prediction a win with 296 electoral votes), I almost think at this point the debates are without need. The country is very heatedly divided (as this thread certainly shows) and everyone's already chosen their side, will the debates swing anyone? That's a good question.