m8nkey Posted December 12, 2007 Report Posted December 12, 2007 I feel ya D3ads. I worked in a few different design fields (not game) before a massive unemployment stint, I'd find work but it would only be short term. After a while I decided I couldn't cut it as a designer and I didn't know wtf I was going to do with myself so I joined the Navy. Best thing I ever did, float around, pulling into ports getting drunk and attempting to pick up chicks with varying degrees of success. Wish I did it earlier, the financial security is fucken awesome and I'll be in a comfortable position for another attempt in a creative field when I discharge in just over a year (joined for 6 years). My resolution for next year: 1. Learn the way of bushido 2. Obtain the number 2 headband. 3. Kill number 1 samurai. 4. With the godlike powers of the number 1 headband, make a rad, critically acclaimed level and obtain "featured artist" status on mapcore. Quote
-HP- Posted December 12, 2007 Author Report Posted December 12, 2007 4. With the godlike powers of the number 1 headband, make a rad, critically acclaimed level and obtain "featured artist" status on mapcore. Ahhh.. yes, me too! Quote
D3ads Posted December 13, 2007 Report Posted December 13, 2007 Christ Thrik, you're like the dad I never had D3, you really need to understand that not that many people care about HL1 anymore. Even 'big' mods like that Paranoia have barely managed to scratch most gamers' consciousness, because HL1 is so far in history for them they literally couldn't care less. You need to move on from HL1. Even if you manage to make something wondrous for the engine that's never been seen before, most people will still think it looks like shit. The engine is so old that isn't simply incapable of impressing anyone, even where it's been heavily modified as Paranoia was. Except that HL1 is still the most played game last time I checked, because it's still perfectly moddable and there's plenty of mods out already for it and the like. There's still a lot of projects in the works for the game, it's far from dead as I've said many times, you just have to find the right communities. Paranoia isn't as detailed as it could be, the engine is perfectly capable of more: With more work, it can easily rival some of the HL2 environments. You have to acknowledge this fact. Unless you want to continue applying for piece of shit jobs at supermarkets for the next five years, you need to move on and apply your clear passion for game design to something more appropriate to the modern audience. You're right, it's worth pointing out that I make textures in general that can be applied for any engine, just because I work with HL1 doesn't mean that I don't understand newer techniques and I have several textures which can be applied to more 'modern' games. There is absolutely nothing even remotely perplexing about Source mapping, so drop the excuses and get on with it. All your little tricks for HL1 are still relevant, but because there's a higher detail ceiling you can do so much more with them. Honestly D3, the way you think is so outdated and generally weird for a guy in his twenties that it dumbfounds me. What's all this shit about separating your internet PC? What are you, 50? How can you possibly use a PC in this day and age that isn't hooked up to a permanent line? Haha, there are plenty of people who think like I do, I'm far from the only one with such opinions. How do I use a PC without the Internet? Easy, in this day and age of DVD-RW, if I want to move something I got from the Internet to my other machime, I just pop it onto a DVD and copy it over, it doesn't take that much longer. I used to have an internet connection upstairs, but it was shared with my dad's (this computer) so I couldn't stay on it 24/7. It's too much of a distraction too, I used to spend far too much time online because the Internet was just there and I'd rarely get any other work done. By seperating the two, I can work on my stuff without having the Internet to distract me and if I need to go online for anything.. I just come on here. I don't play multiplayer games anymore, have no interest in them and I don't miss them truth be told so there's another reason for not needing the Internet on my own machine. Steam is something people just run in the background all the time these days. It hardly eats into your performance at all thanks to the wonders of modern hardware, it's useful to have all your stuff available at once, and for those of us living in the 2000s with broadband the whole offline thing really isn't even considered. I've not even encountered the 'Run in Offline Mode' thing in about four years. Why? Because I have a connection plugged in all the time. It's just how computers are these days. Yeah but my point stands, why should you need to have internet access to play single-player games. Activating the products once I can live with, but needing a constant connection for them? What's the point? If I want to play online, I'll setup a connection, if I want to play offline with myself (hrhrhr) then I shouldn't need to worry about it. Again, no SP games other than HL2 et al need the Internet to play them. Honestly D3, what's up with you? How have you transformed from a passionate budding level designer into someone critically behind on technology, who hasn't really played any truly modern games (Games from two years ago like F.E.A.R. don't count -- and weren't you talking about F.E.A.R. months and months ago?), and who is completely unwilling to even try modern game development? I'm not completing unwilling, give me a bit of time to sort out a new machine and possibly look into getting a new line put in or something and I'll see what I can do, it's about time now that I delved into Source design anyway, you're right. Doesn't mean that I have to stop working with old stuff on the side if I wish. I've messed about with the Doom 3 editor a little too, maybe I should try and have a go at developing that further. Sure I've played F.E.A.R. but not on the highest settings, due to the crappy video card. I wanted to change that ages ago but I just forget due to other things taking much higher priority. F.E.A.R. on max at 1280x1024 would be a wet dream for me The only reason those Unreal Engine maps look so crazy to you is because you wouldn't have the first idea about where to even begin making one because you've fell so morbidly behind on technology. It's not like you just press a 'make map' button and all the mapper did is put the special effects into it. It takes just as much knowledge of engine limitations and skill as your HL1 mapping does. I mean what, do you think engine limitations are something only HL1 has? Do you think it's not possible to push the detail ceiling on modern games and do something people never thought possible with the engine? Well, I guess your view of modern graphics is so blurred (due to having hardly experienced them) that it's hard for you to know what's pushing the limits and what isn't. I think it's that lack of comfort zone and familiarity that frightens you. Hey there's no need to be patronising, I can see it's taken a lot of skill and dedication to produce such environments, I just don't like the Unreal 3 engine, it all just looks so overdone. GOW looks really nice in a lot of areas though. Of course I don't think HL has limitations, don' be silly, I'm also well aware that modern game engines can be pushed further too. It's not too late to catch up and get yourself a real job, but it will be unless you take the advice everyone's giving you. So far pretty much everyone has agreed with me in saying that you're a bit of a mess D3, and this is a sentiment that's been running for some time. Nobody wants you to stay like this, but nobody's going to hold your hand either. I'm a mess? You'd be a mess too if you'd had to endure half the shit I've had to put up with for the last two years! It's both emotionally and physically draining. Anyway, my life is still much much better than it was sometime ago, thanks to all the new friends I know. 2008 can only get better, I'm sure. Just think about being in our shoes D3, where buying a £350 graphics card really isn't that much of a deal because it's only a portion of our monthly wages, and we go to work every day and do something we love with guys who're into the same thing. Well I've always been a sensible spender, even when I was using my trust fund 7 years ago, I hardly ever spent any of it. Unlike my sister who throws away £30 for fucking perfume (wtf?). Even when I've got a disposable income I doubt that will change much. i like d3 and D3 likes you curman I think now would be the right time to post the "THIS CANNOT END WELL!" macro. Haha, nah I don't have any problems with Thrik giving me honest and open advice and criticism, I appreciate his concerns, there's nothing offensive or overly harsh here. Quote
Pericolos0 Posted December 13, 2007 Report Posted December 13, 2007 D3: stop making excuses for absolutely everything and get on with your life. also: stop living in the past also2: buy a usb stick (burning on dvd just to copy somehting over to another computer????) Quote
-HP- Posted December 13, 2007 Author Report Posted December 13, 2007 Except that HL1 is still the most played game last time I checked You gotta be kidding me... When was the last time you checked? 2 years ago? You're right, it's worth pointing out that I make textures in general that can be applied for any engine The era of "difuse texture" only are long gone my friend! bump/normal maps, parallax mapping, relief maps, specular maps... How do I use a PC without the Internet? Easy, in this day and age of DVD-RW... Dude, seriously... WTF? I comprehend you'r point, and I agree single player games shouldn't need online authentication every single time you wanna play it, but It was a Valve move, and face it, sooner or later EVERY single game will need an internet connection, give it a couple of years, the future is here, and it started with Steam. And wtf is that screnshot you posted? Are we suposed to be impressed? ok..... Just, get your self a new machine, and you'll see what we all mean... good luck Quote
Thrik Posted December 13, 2007 Report Posted December 13, 2007 I'm busy at work so I'm only going to address two of those points. Firstly, many games just assume an internet connection is present these days because there's hardly anyone out there not hooked up. BioShock connects to the internet to activate, all of Steam's games do (which now includes hundreds of non-Valve games if you hadn't notice), and in general a lot of games use it for automatic patching and such. Nobody sees a single-player game requiring a connection as unreasonable anymore because pretty much nobody doesn't have a connection there for it to use. I really recommend you get your main computer hooked up rather than this crazy splitting thing. As for HL1, it really isn't the most popular game at all. Counter-Strike accounts for almost all the players, and I can tell you without any hesitation whatsoever that the vast majority of those people have no interest in trying out different HL1 mods. Day of Defeat and TFC still have players, but a lot of them are bots and just like with CS most of them are just addicted to those mods and won't try anything else. And that Paranoia shot you showed doesn't look particularly good, D3. It looks better than most HL1 graphics, but it's still noticeably inferior to the first-generation version of Source (2004). The latest generation as seen in the Orange Box has much nicer lighting, use of HDR, and generally looks better. As I said, HL1 remains popular only with very small enthusiast communities. No mod for HL1 is really going to hit any headlines, just like Paranoia didn't. And more importantly, all these people playing newer games aren't going to go back in time and play a HL1 mod. It just isn't going happen, and I'm dumbfounded that after all we've said you still can't see this. I'm glad you're looking into the suggestions, but please don't make excuses for your outdated mindset. Without making you paranoid or anything, we have discussed you on IRC before and the way that you're clearly throwing away your potential; indeed, some people in #mapcore have said they wish they could edit like you can and are amazed you're just doing nothing of note. It's time to stop moaning about Steam requiring an internet connection (we all did that and forgot about it over three years ago), get everything on one gorgeously powerful PC, and start making visual magic. I don't really want to drag this out though, and will let you have your own thoughts from this point on. All I can do is desperately urge you to accept that HL1 isn't on the radar for most gamers, it looks extremely outdated without any exceptions, and your time would be infinitely better spent working on newer engines. Quote
Thrik Posted December 13, 2007 Report Posted December 13, 2007 Oh and yeah, we're actually in the day of USB thumb sticks which allow instant data copy/paste rather than insanely slow DVD-RWs. It is kind of mind boggling how technology has completely passed you by. Quote
Skjalg Posted December 14, 2007 Report Posted December 14, 2007 Its time for you to wake up mr d3ads. Wake up and smell the ashes... Quote
D3ads Posted December 14, 2007 Report Posted December 14, 2007 ":2ka6aqfg]You gotta be kidding me... When was the last time you checked? 2 years ago? To be fair Thrik's right what CS is the reason for such a thing. I don't know how to actually check what games are at the top at the moment but I saw something fairly recently. With TF2, there's possibly a lot more Source servers. The era of "difuse texture" only are long gone my friend! bump/normal maps, parallax mapping, relief maps, specular maps... What do you take me for, some kind of idiot? I know I like old technology but I know what kind of texture maps surfaces use these days thanks! Indeed, textures I'm talking about use defuse, normal and specular. And wtf is that screnshot you posted? Are we suposed to be impressed? ok..... It's a very quick muck around with Paranoia assets, it just shows that the detail can be pushed easily, I've implemented 512x512 textures into that scene with detailtextures trick (thanks to ifO for showing me that). Quote
dux Posted December 14, 2007 Report Posted December 14, 2007 ":2bah0ygu]You gotta be kidding me... When was the last time you checked? 2 years ago? It's a very quick muck around with Paranoia assets, it just shows that the detail can be pushed easily, I've implemented 512x512 textures into that scene with detailtextures trick (thanks to ifO for showing me that). What detail? It looks old and terrible Quote
Steppenwolf Posted December 14, 2007 Report Posted December 14, 2007 It looks good for a old engine but terrible for modern standarts (even compared to source). Quote
D3ads Posted December 14, 2007 Report Posted December 14, 2007 Firstly, many games just assume an internet connection is present these days because there's hardly anyone out there not hooked up. BioShock connects to the internet to activate, all of Steam's games do (which now includes hundreds of non-Valve games if you hadn't notice), and in general a lot of games use it for automatic patching and such. I know that there are non-Valve games on Steam but these are all titles that you can buy in a store as well? The downside of having a system whereby you can download your games is that much like the current status when it comes to music, with more and more people buying music off the Internet, the independant record stores are beginning to suffer and I can see this happening with games as well. In probably not many years from now, the days of going to a store and paying for a game over the counter will be massively reduced if not wiped out. Personally, I like going out to the store and buying a new game, having nice flashy packaging is part of the appeal, much like CDs and it gets me out of the house for however short a time. Perhaps I sound a bit over paranoid with this but you can hopefully see where I'm coming from. I really recommend you get your main computer hooked up rather than this crazy splitting thing. With what? There's only one cable line to the house which is connected to the 20mb connection I'm using right now. I'm certainly not paying for another line, there's no guarantee I'll even be here for long next year to make use of it. And that Paranoia shot you showed doesn't look particularly good, D3. It looks better than most HL1 graphics, but it's still noticeably inferior to the first-generation version of Source (2004). The latest generation as seen in the Orange Box has much nicer lighting, use of HDR, and generally looks better. You missed my point, the shot demonstates much more detail than Paranoia in itself has, I said with more work on that scene it could rival first generation Source, but not better it. As I said, HL1 remains popular only with very small enthusiast communities. No mod for HL1 is really going to hit any headlines, just like Paranoia didn't. And more importantly, all these people playing newer games aren't going to go back in time and play a HL1 mod. It just isn't going happen, and I'm dumbfounded that after all we've said you still can't see this. There are still lots of people who play new games and older ones too, including Half-Life. Don't forget that because HL is so old now Valve might possibly release the source code for the engine allowing people to make games that can be downloaded as stand-alone products. It's not happened yet, but hopefully it will. I'm glad you're looking into the suggestions, but please don't make excuses for your outdated mindset. Without making you paranoid or anything, we have discussed you on IRC before and the way that you're clearly throwing away your potential; indeed, some people in #mapcore have said they wish they could edit like you can and are amazed you're just doing nothing of note. It's not an 'outdated mindset', it's my opinion on things, like I said I'm far from the only one who thinks about things in the same way. I think the best thing to do would be to push myself to work with some newer engines doing something and still continue my personal project as it is for now and then maybe think about porting it all to Source when I'm more akin to it so it can have improved lighting and effects but I don't need HDR, normal, specular etc for what I'm doing. As for discussing me on IRC, it makes me raise an eyebrow more than induce paranoia, I suppose it's flattering to know people think highly of my work but I really think that I am nowhere near as talented as most of the people in Mapcore, whether being in the industry or not! It's time to stop moaning about Steam requiring an internet connection (we all did that and forgot about it over three years ago), get everything on one gorgeously powerful PC, and start making visual magic. I don't really want to drag this out though, and will let you have your own thoughts from this point on. All I can do is desperately urge you to accept that HL1 isn't on the radar for most gamers, it looks extremely outdated without any exceptions, and your time would be infinitely better spent working on newer engines. I'll be on IRC later if you feel the need to drag it out more Quote
Thrik Posted December 14, 2007 Report Posted December 14, 2007 Just as a note, wireless technology is really fine now, particularly with the brand new Wireless-N (802.11n) which has much better range and speed than before. There should be no problem spending a one-time fee for a pair of network cards to transfer the connection, or even get a router if you have many PCs (there're four in my household, hence the wireless router). Quote
Minos Posted December 14, 2007 Report Posted December 14, 2007 Valve will never release HL's source code, because CS is still one of the most popular online game. Unless they want countless shitfucks creating cheats and stuff. Quote
Defrag Posted December 15, 2007 Report Posted December 15, 2007 D3: If you want to get a job as a level designer, you've got to let HL1 go and move with the times. Ultimately, it is 8+ year old technology -- in employment terms it is largely irrelevant unless you did something amazingly significant with it. If you don't want to be a level designer / artist / whatever in the games industry and just like working with HL1 as an unrelated hobby, then I don't see how anyone can moan at you for it. If you want a job, you seriously have to drop it, though. Back to the topic: Pretty up and down year for me. Work-wise: I got a great degree award and helped to finally launch FF, but then spent the next ~6 months jobless. I got bored after about two months, but I've always been upbeat so it didn't really dent my confidence at all. Anyway, I put a lot of work into my portfolio, listened to the advice I was given by my friends and, eventually, the effort paid off. Now I've got a job in the games industry working in a team with two of my best friends (plus a few other people I already know to be nice people), so I'm really pleased about that. FF kinda bombing sucked. I say kinda bombing because a lot of people enjoyed it and we got plenty of positive feedback, but our player retention rates weren't good. Launching a week before TF2 wasn't ideal, but the mod doesn't have enough new & interesting features or maps at the present time. TF2 being outstanding didn't help us, but that was always a risk Personal-wise: Pretty much a non-event this year. I spent so much time on my uni work that I didn't have time for anything else, and then I spent the next six months without any income, so it wasn't exactly a great time for going out & meeting people etc. Grew my hair long(ish) and I like it this way, so that's going to stay. Next year: My hope is to do well at my job, get new contract & a step-up and then see where I go from there. Hopefully I will meet someone nice, too. I also hope to do something else sport-wise. Been doing martial arts for four years now and I would like to do something on top of that like 5 a side footie (I'm proper rubbish at football but it's fun ). I hope we can improve FF and add a lot of new content, but I don't know how much motivation I have left for it after 3+ years. Quote
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