Level Design for different engines...

[madgernader]

Okay, I've used source for around 2 years off and on, and I've grown accustomed to how a large majority of it is brush based.

So I've been messing around with various other editors, and what I really want to know is, if I want to get anywhere as a level designer am I going to need to learn to model? as most of the newer engines I've seen had a large majority of models used for everything from terrain to props; With most brushwork (atleast from my attempts) not reaching the quality that could probably be easily acheived by one skilled with some modeling program.

Ive tried

*Hammer (HL2/HL1)

*Radiant (Doom3)

*Construction Set (Oblivion/Morrowind)

*Ued 3 (Roboblitz)

*Ued 2 (UT04, Red Orchestra)

*Sandbox (Farcry/Crysis)

So what I really want are your thoughts on what you think it would take to do well as a level designer for various engines...

[m8nkey]

If you want your stuff to stand out, absolutely. It also opens up a heap of posabilities with what you can achieve. At least some basic modelling and texture knowledge comes in handy.

I've only just started playing round with current generation game engines myself. From what little I know Source is probably the least model dependant when compared to Idtech4 and especially u3.

I picked up a student edition of Max and bought a DVD with a few projects on it (it was shit, only watched half but it taught me some basics). There's also some great tutorials out there specific to game modelling, if you go with Max I'd recommend GeneralVivi's bench tutorial.

http://www.iwannamap.com/tutorial.php?type=model

[Algor]

Keep in mind- a huge part of being a level designer at some companies is about strictly design related issues. You may never be expected to know how to use Max even the slightest bit in some cases. It certainly doesn't hurt to know how to do it, but depending on needs, it also may not help to know how.

[Neil Squibb]

How much of a leap is it to go from Hammer to Max? I've had a dabble in Max before but nothing serious. Would it take a lot to learn the basics?

[Zacker]

The answer to your question "am I going to need to learn to model?" depends an a lot on what exactly you mean. If you mean model as in making characters, high poly stuff, unwrapping, details, props, etc. then the answer is a no - very few level designers deal with that kind of stuff.

If you on the other hand mean being able to work in a modelling package such as 3ds max, then it the answer is more of a yes. There is an a lot of engines relying heavily on meshes and also a good bunch where all level design is done purely in a modelling package.

As a level designer it's not something you need to care greatly about though. Even if you haven't touched 3ds max before, then you, as an experienced level designer, can learn the needed stuff within a few weeks.

[Furyo]

Like others have said, a level designer is not a modeller. In most studios, these are two different jobs. While a level designer is part of the "design" team and can sometimes work on game design as well, a modeller is more on the artistic side, and works with the rest of the artistic team on assets in general.

If the engine you work with requires to use Max or other modelling programs, you'll be taught the basics if you don't have them but in the same vein as you'd design your level with very basic brushes in Hammer. You'll have to learn how to create boxes and other low poly stuff to get the general idea across.

As a level designer, if you actually start detailing the map yourself, you're most of the time not even doing your job anymore.

[static07]

with leveldesign as a hobby if you wish to advance to newer engines, I believe it is a must to know basic modeling.

I'm not an expert on this but I believe meshes have a better performance than BSP, when it comes to high polygon shapes.

[Rick_D]

you guys are misinterpreting what he is asking - and that is down to the industry not having very clear cut positions.

in asnwer to OP's question: If you want to build levels, then yes, learn a modeling app, max or maya - whichever you can get your hands on legally (lol). If you want to build levels or create props for them you will more than likely be working in a 3d app - or in a toolset inspired by a modeling app.

Your portfolio and ability to learn are important in landing you the job but you'll help yourself by having a reasonable understanding of the 3d app.

If you want to script gameplay and draw layouts of levels, then no, you will only need to learn whatever toolset is used by the company and you'll just need to be confident you can pick up a new set of tools for scripting gameplay. No 3d work will be involved (ie: you will never be required to create assets or build parts of the level).

[FrieChamp]

How much of a leap is it to go from Hammer to Max? I've had a dabble in Max before but nothing serious. Would it take a lot to learn the basics?

I've found it to be a completely different philosophy in how you create an object in comparison to brushes made in hammer or UED. I think it takes lots of time and pain to wrap your head around it, others watch a few tutorials and create great looking models in no time - if you said you tried max yourself, what was your first impression?

you guys are misinterpreting what he is asking - and that is down to the industry not having very clear cut positions.

in asnwer to OP's question: If you want to build levels, then yes, learn a modeling app, max or maya - whichever you can get your hands on legally (lol). If you want to build levels or create props for them you will more than likely be working in a 3d app - or in a toolset inspired by a modeling app.

Your portfolio and ability to learn are important in landing you the job but you'll help yourself by having a reasonable understanding of the 3d app.

If you want to script gameplay and draw layouts of levels, then no, you will only need to learn whatever toolset is used by the company and you'll just need to be confident you can pick up a new set of tools for scripting gameplay. No 3d work will be involved (ie: you will never be required to create assets or build parts of the level).

Stating that level-designers only draw layouts and script gameplay is false or "not true for all companies" at best. Even if the assets are created by environment artists, there are still a gazillion different ways on how to arrange them, how you use the textures, what lights, particle effects etc.

There are lots of different companies/engines/work flows/job descriptions, I remember several threads in "Game Industry Discussion" on the topic..

But yea, if you want to create original content and build the assets yourself, you don't get around learning a modeling package such as Max/Maya or XSI. Just be aware that the ability to do this isn't necessarily a criteria to land a position as a professional level-designer, although a basic artistic understanding is needed.

[madgernader]

in asnwer to OP's question: If you want to build levels, then yes, learn a modeling app, max or maya - whichever you can get your hands on legally (lol). If you want to build levels or create props for them you will more than likely be working in a 3d app - or in a toolset inspired by a modeling app.

Thats what I would want to do, building all the levels and working from the concepts and all that fun stuff.

So it seems that learning to model would be a good thing to do

I figured I could get by without it, but after looking at all the other engines I thought of how awful it would be to not know how, and or have someone else constantly changing things for you...

Does anyone know where some good Maya tutorials are? (I say maya because I tried 3dsmax awhile back and it didnt really impress me much )