TF2

[insta]

duke nukem forever. They don't waste their money on irrelevant presentation and they focus and shut up and work on their game. I like those guys even if they've been going at it for 10 years.

[FMPONE]

duke nukem forever. They don't waste their money on irrelevant presentation and they focus and shut up and work on their game. I like those guys even if they've been going at it for 10 years.

L0l

[Pericolos0]

haha holy shit lololei get out of your hole. TF2 is a fresh breath in fps and valve is doing some of the coolest game marketing iv'e ever seen for it. Can't wait to see facial animation like this in the game, i can really imagine it bringing more life to the game. You may not find it revolutionary but it is a really big step in realtime facial animation. This is one of the features in games and interactive storytelling that will not end up to be a short lived novelty feature in the future, they are setting the standard.

[Defrag]

I think I remember reading that they removed the spy ability to feign death. Also, I think they dropped disguises in favor of turning completely invisible.

Which the old Quakeworld TF could already do. Valve's just pushing these out as 'revolutionary new features'.

Whats funny is that on some other board i'm bashed for not sucking up to the face tech that's gonna 'save the game' lol. It will be a short-lived novelty that will get out of date in years and no one will look back on as if it were 'great', like XIII.

I don't think they are pushing it as revolutionary (the spy invisibility). I would bet my house on invisibility being brought back because feigning doesn't play nice with ragdolls.

Some problems have to be conquered when a ragdoll feign happens:

1. Ragdoll can't fall down somewhere that is not normally accessible to players, but it can't look goofy when blocked or it gives the game away

2. Ragdoll has to be able to get back up from an arbitrary position

3. Ragdoll has to be networked & accurate on all clients

4. Above step has to work AND not have any tell-tale signs that will make it obvious as a feigned spy. Any lag or jerkyness = easily identifiable as a networked object and thus a spy (all corpses are usually client objects as they have no effect on the game world).

So there's a whole host of challenges to conquer. It was probably just a lot easier to implement invisibility.

[Taylor]

Might have been, but I think it was probably more to do with the whole diguise thing being crapola.

In an organised game everyone knew you’re a spy, and in a public server you got basically one opportunity to kill people before the defenders start shooting everyone coming within 10 feet of them because they know there's a spy (and this potential kill itself may be compromised because you’re given the name of the first person who sees you).

[leileilol]

haha holy shit lololei get out of your hole. TF2 is a fresh breath in fps and valve is doing some of the coolest game marketing iv'e ever seen for it. Can't wait to see facial animation like this in the game, i can really imagine it bringing more life to the game. You may not find it revolutionary but it is a really big step in realtime facial animation.

Marketing, not developing. In reality it's just a cartoony rehash of the same old game. This is the kind of stuff that makes the press wanky and makes games suck. Hello? We're making GAMES, not pixar feature films.

It's the same old tech, it's just more exaggerated in this case.

[insta]

Obviously its a "rehash of the same old game", since it's Team Fortress. It's not like they'd change the base gameplay since people have formed a pretty good idea about how the game will play.

I think Valve are taking plenty of chances with the gameplay changes they've implemented so far, and it'll be interesting to see if old fans of TF will like them.

[Rick_D]

I think I remember reading that they removed the spy ability to feign death. Also, I think they dropped disguises in favor of turning completely invisible.

Which the old Quakeworld TF could already do. Valve's just pushing these out as 'revolutionary new features'.

Whats funny is that on some other board i'm bashed for not sucking up to the face tech that's gonna 'save the game' lol. It will be a short-lived novelty that will get out of date in years and no one will look back on as if it were 'great', like XIII.

I don't think they are pushing it as revolutionary (the spy invisibility). I would bet my house on invisibility being brought back because feigning doesn't play nice with ragdolls.

Some problems have to be conquered when a ragdoll feign happens:

1. Ragdoll can't fall down somewhere that is not normally accessible to players, but it can't look goofy when blocked or it gives the game away

2. Ragdoll has to be able to get back up from an arbitrary position

3. Ragdoll has to be networked & accurate on all clients

4. Above step has to work AND not have any tell-tale signs that will make it obvious as a feigned spy. Any lag or jerkyness = easily identifiable as a networked object and thus a spy (all corpses are usually client objects as they have no effect on the game world).

So there's a whole host of challenges to conquer. It was probably just a lot easier to implement invisibility.

Well, a little birdy has shown me that it's not hard at all, and is already implemented in a certain mod that I might be working on.

As for facial animation, I didn't realise they were suddenly selling the game based on facial animations - it's just another small touch that adds a little spark to the game. Plus it made for a very entertaining presentation.

God people are so lame these days

I think people will complain about anything these days, just to be able to complain about something. I'm liking what valve are doing with the game and personally I think it's a nice step away from realistic games which are everywhere these days.

I have no way to comment on DNF, except for the fact that it still isn't out

Plus I thought the DN games were ok but nothing special in terms of groundbreaking features or gameplay.

[Defrag]

Rick_D: If you can show me a seamless, fully working implementation then great, but I'm not aware of many (any?) games that allow all of the things in my list to happen. I know certain games allow a ragdoll to get back up from an arbitrary position, but I don't know about the rest of that stuff.

[Rick_D]

I'm afraid you will have to wait

[Bluestrike]

BTW I was being sincere when I asked what other additions to the play are in TF2. I'd actually like to know since I'll be getting it and love TF.

Scout's Doublejump

Such a big discussion about grenades, I played TFC 2 years and then switched to CS, in TFc the grenade became the most dangeroes weapon of a class.

Yes conc/grenadejumps were engine bugs as far as I know, the developers never tought to use it as a jump boost.

Just like the gravgun jumping thats used by those poeple playing hl2 in a hour.

[mikezilla]

Marketing, not developing. In reality it's just a cartoony rehash of the same old game. This is the kind of stuff that makes the press wanky and makes games suck. Hello? We're making GAMES, not pixar feature films.

It's the same old tech, it's just more exaggerated in this case.

But your counter case was Duke Nukem Forever... and you're talking about marketing. Which the game has none of. Catan on XBLA has better marketing by that standard.

The truth is this isn't deep penetrative marketing anyway given that it's shakycam stuff released to the hardcore game sites. That's practically none of your audience. They did that for the fans and to create some fun word of mouth. It did, you're talking about it so... marketing wins? One to nothing.

[Alf-Life]

I can't believe they're removing grenades. > Like the 1up guy said... it's like getting a new fighting game and finding your favourite character's moves are all gone.

I mean, really, SECONDARY grenades... how cool were they? Yes, nades contributed to the intense spamming (esp. Dustbowl), but they also formed the heart of the charm and uniqueness of TFC.

I really hope they didn't just remove it so the game could be nerfed to hell and played on consoles alongside PC. :-/

[Rick_D]

who cares frankly - I'm tired of this "OMG NO GRENADES" bs, it's getting boring to listen to. I bet you're going to buy the game anyway so relax a little and accept what valve is doing :S

[Alf-Life]

Why do you think so many people are saying it? Just to be annoying? Name one of the key features of your favourite game and then imagine the dev removing that from the sequel that you've been looking forward to for so long.

Having said that, I am still gonna buy it, and I look forward to seeing what they do with the series. I just hope it was a decision based around spam and other negatives, rather than, like I said above, dumbing the game down for consoles and having it adversely effect the PC version.

Anyway, Mazy's right ('play TFC if you want nades...') so I'm prepared to give Valve's TF2 a chance since everything else about the game looks awesome.