Model viewer and Hammer problems

[Furyo]

It also starts with the HDR skybox creation program we don't have. I know that Arkane Studios had a lot more resources to make Dark Messiah, not to mention Valve's support.

[Defrag]

The main reason people complain is because of the sheer amount of problems the SDK updates generally cause and the lack of testing and big oversights. I mean, the SDK wouldn't even compile under linux out of the box... there's nothing that can excuse that.

Hopefully Valve will start to dish out frequent, smaller updates as opposed to gigantic and infrequent ones. Less stuff to break = less stuff to test = better SDK updates and less frustration.

This round of SDK problems has effectively ground my mod to a halt in various areas, so no wonder people get mad. Steam's ability to instantly update things has made Valve's QA worse than usual as they seem to now have the attitude of "oh well if we break it we can fix it again in a few days or weeks...". The weird thing is that with steam they can roll out beta stuff to whoever wants it, then fix the bugs before they roll it out properly. However, they didn't do that with the SDK this time. The beta hammer period a few updates back was done this way and it helped immensely.

[TeddyBear]

Don't think for a second that we have the same SDK as the purchasers of the license. There's a lot more to the Valve SDK than what we are given for free.

yap. thats what i think too. even this network compiling tool. how people like us would wish to get this. i think licensede users dont have to deal with a steam linkd SDK.

well at last now you are able to start hammer and compile your stuff without any workarounds. that's all i want for the moment.

I was referring to myself. We basically have the same tools.

[TeddyBear]

Okay, both problems are solved now

To be able to view the normal maps in model viewer you had to export the model with the normal map as well. Easy fix!

Edit: With this comes a new problem: you can't turn the normal maps off

[BaRRaKID]

Hi All-

Just wanted to let you know that a Source SDK patch has been published

on Steam. Here are the issues it addresses:

* Fixed compilation issues for Linux dedicated server in SDK

* Removed 3D Lighting Preview menu choice from Hammer

* Fixed SDK Launcher bugs when performing outdated MOD check

* SDK Wizard now creates 'maps' directory underneath the new mod

directory. This prevents a map compilation error

* The 'cs_milita.vmf' distributed with was loading in a bad state if

the grid is set to be displayed at startup. New version has grid off

We're going to try to get another patch out next week that addresses the

Linux terrain physics issue, SDK shaders compilation, and others.

-Mike

It seems like Mike is really doing a good job, and that we can expect more updates to the sdk then before

[Dodger]

Valve allways do something weird

[Polaris]

I think there are like 3 people working on this at Valve. Though if you think about it, thats actually alot since other studios have even fewer than that working on their tools (i.e. 0)

[hessi]

yap. i can fully understand that. many game developers create their games on so crappy SDKs that they dont want to release any of the tools because you would have to workaround all features.

i think valve is doing a good job overall. i can understand that it would be cool if everything would work correctly, but 1. they dont profit from modding community that much (noone of us will buy another license of hl2 to use the sdk) 2. it is still a overall working sdk you get for free.

well, maybe some of you should work with non source engine games and check out their exporters. i remember flipped UVs or corrupted files from gamebryo (used in gothic 3 and oblivion and a bunch of other games).

[Cipher]

This new guy they hired seems to have overlooked the fact that he could release the update as a beta. If it had been a beta we would be facing alot less issues. Hopefully he won't make the same mistake again. Though the the fact that they actually hired a guy to work on public tools is pretty remarkable, I don't think very many studios do this.

[Bic-B@ll]

they dont profit from modding community that much (noone of us will buy another license of hl2 to use the sdk)

without the modding community hl1 would have been dead in maybe 2 years, counter strike and day of defeat would not exist, valve wouldn't have a name anywhere near they would now and hl2 probably wouldn't exist in its current form. half life is 90% the modding. they owe it to themselves to make a quality sdk.

[Cipher]

Yes, I believe they also sort of planned to create a large modding community even before HL1 hit the shelves. Many of their moves points to that. They far surpased other guys like id in support.

Though tbh 2 years is a very long life span for a game with or without modding.

[hessi]

bicball: you should say: without CS. this is one mod. maybe you can add DOD but dod wasnt a that big success of modding as CS was.

and if you would read my message again it says "that much" which is not equal to: "nothing"

they have to think about: is it worth the money to pay someone with like 4000$ maybe a month to work on the dev tools for modding community. when will we get these 4000$ back? CS:S is played. DOD:S is played too. Which games or mods of the community gave this investment a sense?

you always have to think of those guys filling your favourite server. its them who bring the money. not us few 100 artists.

[Cipher]

I think bicball is correct if you consider only the HL1 modding scene in its prime. Hl2 modding just isn't the same. I don't think they are going to benefit anywhere near as much from HL2 modding. Still it's remarkable they show even this level of support, especially with Unreal2007 and whatnot on the horizon.

[Zacker]

This new guy they hired seems to have overlooked the fact that he could release the update as a beta. If it had been a beta we would be facing alot less issues. Hopefully he won't make the same mistake again. Though the the fact that they actually hired a guy to work on public tools is pretty remarkable, I don't think very many studios do this.

From Mike Duran:

The reason that we are being so careful is that we learned it is not practical to do a beta of the new SDK while leaving the old SDK available. So this new release will not be a beta - it will replace the current version.

[Defrag]

bicball: you should say: without CS. this is one mod. maybe you can add DOD but dod wasnt a that big success of modding as CS was.

Firstly, I agree that CS was one of the main reasons for HL's longevity. I also think it was a huge boon for valve and they honestly made quite a bit of dosh out of it. Want to play CS? You've gotta either buy CS retail or HL. They were still selling the game five years later and it was almost entirely down to the modding side of things. If that's not a reason for a company like valve to pay someone to concentrate on the SDK, I don't know what is.

As for HL2: gmod is HL2's big success, and I don't doubt it will sell by the truckload once it's on steam and re-written from the ground up. Valve will be taking something like a 50% share of the profits I think, so that's good business. What I also think is that valve really underestimated the support the community requires when it comes to modding these days. It's getting rather complicated and community created documentation just isn't cutting it. Their SDK has been a trainwreck in many areas.. I mean we're currently entering our third week of not having a working linux server. Our programmers had to fix countless bugs in the SDK because fixes were not forthcoming and it took a year to get an SDK code update. I think that says it all.

Hopefully with the new guy working on it and the new SDK base setup things will be a lot better, though. Huge updates will always run the risk of breaking a lot of stuff due to the mass changes. Valve has definitely done more than most, but it's not all altruistic -- they've got a great business acumen and obviously realised how big a role modding could play. Unfortunately I don't think they've given us enough support for HL2. There's some really, really esoteric stuff in the SDK and little or incomplete documentation in many areas.