An Inconvenient Truth

[Skjalg]

In norway and many other countries we have something called "environment tax" on gas, since the consumer should pay for their pollution. This tax is then used to give companies money so they can clean up their business if it is possible.

The us have that? No.

[Polaris]

This tax is then used to give companies money so they can clean up their business if it is possible.

I'm sorry but that sounds retarded

[Skjalg]

This tax is then used to give companies money so they can clean up their business if it is possible.

I'm sorry but that sounds retarded

haha, sorry, as you know english isn't my first language so some of the expressions I use are a little weird

What I ment was that companies that has invested millions of dollars for building a certain industry a certain way shouldn't be shut down or fined immediatly after an environment law has passed (old example, this method is outdated, but lets just say that they would have to install filters in their smoke pipes) Then they would probably get some support from the government to do just that, clean up their business

Ofcourse, it's not always possible to do so, you can only purify gases this much.

Oh and, most of that money goes into research, like producing more efficient cars.

[JamesL]

Gore didn't invent the net cdxx. He just coined the term "information systems highway" when he tried to get all the schools hooked up to the net. The internet evolved from a U.S. military program known as DARPA.

Or were you being sarcastic? I can't seem to be able tell when people do that anymore

I always thought that JANET the joint academic network, was one of the precursors to the net as we know it. Praps that was just over here in the UK though.

[Polaris]

Licklider formulated the earliest ideas of a global computer network in August 1962 at BBN, in a series of memos discussing the "Galactic Network" concept. These ideas contained almost everything that the Internet is today.

His paper The Computer as a Communication Device, Science and Technology, April 1968, illustrates his vision of network applications.

In October 1962 Licklider was appointed head of the DARPA information processing office, part of the United States Department of Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. He would then convince Ivan Sutherland, Bob Taylor, and Lawrence G. Roberts that an all-encompassing computer network was a very important concept.

Screw Gore, Licklider is probably the most under-appreciated American of all time.

JANET was formed in 1983, the British contribution to the net would be the World Wide Web by Tim Berners-Lee, who imo is one of the more under-appreciated Brits if not the most.

[Fletch]

JANET was formed in 1983, the British contribution to the net would be the World Wide Web by Tim Berners-Lee, who imo is one of the more under-appreciated Brits if not the most.

Didn't he get knighted for his work?

[Polaris]

People who earn medals, awards, honours, prizes and knightships are still rarely recognized by the masses. Ask someone to name a Nobel laureate other than Einstein.

[Fletch]

People who earn medals, awards, honours, prizes and knightships are still rarely recognized by the masses. Ask someone to name a Nobel laureate other than Einstein.

Jimmy Carter

[Polaris]

I never said never, i said rarely

[mabufo]

First off, I apologise if you think i implied that you were an idiot, I didnt, I just implied that you dont know much about this subject.

When it comes to blame; I blame you, your friends, and your society.

You can't go saying that all those reasons are an excuse for polluting, its nothing more than reasons period.

But I'll give you that, too some degree it isn't fair to put you side by side with a non-industry country. But take a look at norway, in comparison to how many people, our ratio for polluting is way less than yours.

Even after the Kyotodeal you guys havent done jack shit (at least not much) to reduce your polluting, norway on the other hand has taken CO2 and SO4 polluting down by several percent, while actually increasing the size of our industry.

And your whole attitude of this actually, again, proves my point. You seem totally oblivious to the problem and choose to ignore because its just the way it is over there. Thats wrong!

Oh and, I've just come home from a Chemistry exam where this was a huge part of it (30%). I blamed the US there too

I seem totally oblivious? You are the one not choosing to consider the reasons I have put before you. Making a comparison between the US and Norway is nothing short of nonsensical. Let me prove my point: Norway has a population of 4,610,820 people - The US has a population of 298,444,215 people. Somehow it's still a wonder that America produces more pollution than most other countries. I would think the sheer amount of people in America would produce significantly more waste, than Norway's 4.6 million.

EDIT: What I'm saying is that the reason America, Japan, and China - and other largely populated countries are large polluters is because we have significantly more people, and more industry - than smaller countries like Norway, who take pride in not polluting. It doesn't seem fair to compare the two (or any other similar country)

Population isn't even the biggest factor. Politics is by far, the biggest reason for pollution here in the states. No one can agree on any sort of plan to fix things. Capitalism is a double edged sword in more ways than one. The people involved in industry don't want to change because they will lose money - and the people in governement can't force to do it, becuase The american congress is so deadlocked that no one can ever get anywhere with hot button issues like this. Me personally, I'm all for reducing pollution - and that's great, but I can't stop it by myself. I can ride my bike all I want, and I do - but people have to commute to get to work, people have to get to where they're going - and unfortunately, in America public transportation isn't as widely used as it should be - so people drive their cars. The situation is again, different - and that's what you don't seem to understand.

You have to understand that America works differently than your country. It may not be for the best but that's how it is.

It seems to me you guys are feeding off of misinformation(especially our European friends) - that every American person is an inconsiderate slob and doesn't care about anybody. That's simply not true.

[cdxx]

Gore didn't invent the net cdxx. He just coined the term "information systems highway" when he tried to get all the schools hooked up to the net. The internet evolved from a U.S. military program known as DARPA.

Or were you being sarcastic? I can't seem to be able tell when people do that anymore

sarcastic. the net sucks for getting that across. i thought it was halarious when that whole story hit so I couldn't resist the mention of it.

[Izuno]

Two words: per capita.

Please continue arguing.

[Skjalg]

I seem totally oblivious? You are the one not choosing to consider the reasons I have put before you. Making a comparison between the US and Norway is nothing short of nonsensical. Let me prove my point: Norway has a population of 4,610,820 people - The US has a population of 298,444,215 people. Somehow it's still a wonder that America produces more pollution than most other countries. I would think the sheer amount of people in America would produce significantly more waste, than Norway's 4.6 million.

EDIT: What I'm saying is that the reason America, Japan, and China - and other largely populated countries are large polluters is because we have significantly more people, and more industry - than smaller countries like Norway, who take pride in not polluting. It doesn't seem fair to compare the two (or any other similar country)

Population isn't even the biggest factor. Politics is by far, the biggest reason for pollution here in the states. No one can agree on any sort of plan to fix things. Capitalism is a double edged sword in more ways than one. The people involved in industry don't want to change because they will lose money - and the people in governement can't force to do it, becuase The american congress is so deadlocked that no one can ever get anywhere with hot button issues like this. Me personally, I'm all for reducing pollution - and that's great, but I can't stop it by myself. I can ride my bike all I want, and I do - but people have to commute to get to work, people have to get to where they're going - and unfortunately, in America public transportation isn't as widely used as it should be - so people drive their cars. The situation is again, different - and that's what you don't seem to understand.

You have to understand that America works differently than your country. It may not be for the best but that's how it is.

It seems to me you guys are feeding off of misinformation(especially our European friends) - that every American person is an inconsiderate slob and doesn't care about anybody. That's simply not true.

Ofcourse thats not true, its generalization and its bad blah blah, but it's still mostly true

Yes your situation is different, and again, thats not an excuse! THATS THE PROBLEM! You are absolutely right about the capitalism is a double edged sword, but leaning back in your chair and saying that doesn't really help anyone. Go fix it

Oh and, you're right, I still dont get your argument about you guys polluting more because you're more people. Thats just stupid. If anything, you should pollute less. (% per person, please, thats what I ment about ratio)

[Polaris]

I still dont get your argument about you guys polluting more because you're more people. Thats just stupid. If anything, you should pollute less.

Please explain

Just your curious about your rationale.

[Fletch]

It all depends on what your definition of pollution is and what your measuring stick is.

In total volume, America leads in greenhouse gas emissions.

Per capita, Australia leads in greenhouse gas emissions.

In both total volume and per capita, America leads in solid waste.

However, Australia has signed the Kyoto Accord and is implementing it. America (read: Bush) did not sign Kyoto and is reversing previous environmental protections.

Moral of the story: oxygen bubbles and tin foil hats for everybody!