The Downfall of the Netherlands

[RD]

Its time for another Islamic discussion. I discovered an interesting book here in Holland called:

The Downfall of the Netherlands,

"Land of the Naive Fools".

( http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/heroes/downfall.htm )

The title immediately hooked me.It was written in 1992 by a Pakistani who came to live in Holland. After writing the book he was convicted by the dutch court because it was racist (against his own religion, Islam ofcourse).

In short the book is about the authors vision of the downfall of Holland, because we treat evrything equal. It is about racism and how almost nobody understands the word. It would be an interesting read for Kosmo and St0lve especially

If you read it (its a long read) keep in mind this was written 15years ago. Its nothing less than a prophecy. Dutch ppl here will recognise alot. Disgraceful that the man was convicted because the truth he wrote was not politically correct.

How can a people be so advanced in their thought while being so naive at the same time? Or the other way around: how can people as smart as the drug lords of Colombia and yet be dumb enough to ignore the lives they wreck? The answer is easy: we only develop our brains in those areas where we train them. The story of the Dutch is simply the story of a people who lived so long in a neatly arranged society, and developed its kindness so far that it not only forgot what a mess looks like, but never developed the intelligence to keep itself clean.

In a worst-case scenario, they will have to admit they literally gave their already small country away.

Last week our queen visited some muslims in The Hague and to avoid an embarrassing situation she didnt shake any hands, because on previous occassions muslims refused to shake hands with ppl from our government. Can you imagine meeting the president of China in China and refusing to bow, and getting angry when he bows at you? But our Queen has just happily succumbed to it.

Guess whos feet these are? Its our queen.

Its kinda like Iran threatening to go on with its nuclear program, threatening to stop its oilsupply and we giving them hundrends of mlns of dollars. We are happy when it works, while the truth is its a disgracefully backwards mindset. Islam has a word for it, called dhimmitude.

Basically dhimmis are slaves, they get angry at others for not bowing to islamic violence and threats. There wouldnt be a problem if we just all did what the muslims wanted, and we should do our best to avoid confrontations at all costs. Remember the cartoonthread and many of you being angry at Europe for it? Its called dhimmitude.

Its especially ridiculous accusing ppl who have the courage not to bow of racism.

This quote is also very true.

The Dutch are that much more advanced compared to the rest of the world that it would take a proportional force to make them lose their balance. And when it comes to a sense of humor: behind those neutral faces lies a sense of humor that exceeds the one of the English and Americans, which may seem dumb, because they make those funny movies, but making a movie isn't the same as living in one.

And lastly a question the author asks in his book:

Why aren't there a proportional number of Islamic women, with or without a bikini, on the Dutch beach?

I am curious about the answers

[Polaris]

Actually dhimmis would more acurately be described as second class citizens. In the early days of Islam dhimmis were the only ones who had to pay taxes. This I think is how Islam spread so fast in those days, they didn't have to resort to violent forced conversion or just convincing people how awesome Islam is (missionaries). They just had to wait for all the people who weren't very faithful to their own religions to convert in order to avoid taxes. A simple and practical approach really.

Regardless, I think you are over reacting

[RD]

I know you'd think that because youre not living in Europe. But how am i overreacting, i didnt write the book?

Btw you didnt answer the bikini question. I am really curious about the answers

[Polaris]

Bikini Question: A liberal nation will attract conservative immigrants its that simple. I live in Canada I would know.

[Pericolos0]

I live in the dreaded holland now and also think you are overreacting. It's amazing how integrated the immigrants are here when you compare to belgium. Integration is hard, but holland is doign it way better than other countries. I found that there are even muslim oriented tv programmes now on dutch television. Integration goes both ways and im happy the queen realises that.

[RD]

Bikini Question: A liberal nation will attract conservative immigrants its that simple. I live in Canada I would know.

Most of our 1 million muslims are born and bred in Holland, we have had them for decades. But that doesnt really matter. Obviously they are very conservative, but im more curious about the reason behind it. Why dont they go to the beach, they like the sun just like you and me?

[Pericolos0]

Bikini Question: A liberal nation will attract conservative immigrants its that simple. I live in Canada I would know.

Most of our 1 million muslims are born and bred in Holland, we have had them for decades. But that doesnt really matter. Obviously they are very conservative, but im more curious about the reason behind it. Why dont they go to the beach, they like the sun just like you and me?

what beaches do you go to? The beach in your own town is always filled with immigrants. You are acting like all of those 1 million muslims wear burkas all the time.

[Polaris]

RD: Are you trying to imply what I think your trying to imply?

[RD]

I live in the dreaded holland now and also think you are overreacting. It's amazing how integrated the immigrants are here when you compare to belgium. Integration is hard, but holland is doign it way better than other countries. I found that there are even muslim oriented tv programmes now on dutch television. Integration goes both ways and im happy the queen realises that.

How am i overreacting? I didnt write the book. Read a little further than the title. If integration goes both ways, than why do muslims refuse to shake hands with the queen or even the highest members of our government? If they dont give way for these ppl, do you really think they do for anything else? How do they integrate, apart from creating their own blocks where they can keep living their way and in these blocks they ask us to adapt?

I know Holland is lightyears ahead of the EU or US when it comes to immigration, but you cant possibly see how things are by walking on the street and seeing smily faces.

I dont believe the apocalypse is coming for Holland but we are moving backwards to avoid confrontations with Islam.

[RD]

RD: Are you trying to imply what I think your trying to imply?

I dunno what youre talking about, just answer the question.

[RD]

what beaches do you go to? The beach in your own town is always filled with immigrants. You are acting like all of those 1 million muslims wear burkas all the time.

I am talking about muslim women lying on the beach with a bikini. You know, the ones you see in the tram wearing a headscarve.

And quote me where i am talking about burkas

[Pericolos0]

the ones wearing a headscarve do this because they believe its right . They do it so they wouldnt be attractive to men.. why the hell would they go wear bikinis. And most muslims really arnt that conservative, just visit the beach, not all muslims wear headscarves.. that ammount is far below 1 million. I dont really see much headscarved women in the hague either, only at the areas near the stations

[RD]

the ones wearing a headscarve do this because they believe its right . They do it so they wouldnt be attractive to men.. why the hell would they go wear bikinis.

Actually, they do it because its culture, and a great deal of them absolutely dont do it voluntarily but are forced to by surroundings. Its Islam. I know its hard to say that word. Just for one second think deeper about the reasons why a woman would have to cover herself up when she is around men. What does that make our dutch women who dont cover up, and what does that make our men?

2 Weeks ago there was a documentary dedicated to this subject on "netwerk". It was about islamic women who are kept inside their houses here in Holland, all covered up, not allowed to even open the blinds to see the sun. I think i recognised a colleague who was forced to marry a moroccan guy and last thing i heard lays pregnant in a spanish mental hospital after fleeing Morocco.

And most muslims really arnt that conservative, just visit the beach, not all muslims wear headscarves.. that ammount is far below 1 million. I dont really see much headscarved women in the hague either, only at the areas near the stations

Thats where they live, the neighbourhoods at the stations.....

They dont live in Scheveningen. Schevening is an oerhollands fishing village. If you take tram 6 around the Hague, thru the areas where they live, you will see most women wearing a headscarve.

I dont mean to sound like your father Peris, but you havent lived here long enough or seen enough of the Hague or our country to know much about it except very superficially from a tourists point of view. If you read the article you would see whole chapters written for you. You cant see someones believes.

I am curious do you have any muslim friends Peris? Or colleagues? Do you know any women wearing a headscarve, and if not, why do you think that is

[Pericolos0]

I know this happens, I know there are a lot of muslim women mistreated.. and I do not disagree with it at all. I dont really know what you are trying to say.. that the queen approves with this behavior? Because Im sure thats not the case also. You are acting like its them versus us and we are surrendering.

By the way, alot of western women are also mistreated and hardly leave their homes, but you hardly hear about those i think.. they arnt as noticable as women wearing headscarves. But its very close, i know women who had this happen to them.

And yeah i dont live here very long yet, but long enough to notice differences with where i come from. Immigrants are alot less conservative here. Its alot worse in belgium and france where immigrants got totally ignored (especially in france as we can now see).

I have muslim friends, no extremist ones though. At my previous job one of my collegues was a muslim. He was a pretty fundamentalist believer of his religion, he also didnt believe in evolution, but only because he never had a great education. I believe proper education can solve problems of the future and feel holland is going the right path with this.

I understand where your views are coming from, but you are overreacting alot. There isnt going to be a downfall of holland any time soon

[kleinluka]

One of my ex-girlfriends is muslim and she's pretty normal as far as clothing goes. She probably wouldn't wear kinky stuff like a mini skirt though. The religion is pretty clear about the fact that muslim women shouldn't dress kinky and look "sexy" in the sense of lying on a beach in a bikini where hundres of men can stare at them... They are not supposed to show certain areas of their body in public but they respect that and live with it. It's that simple. Many of them probably don't even WANT to dress sexy because they'd feel uncomfortable. It's just a matter of how you are brought up and what you are told is wrong and right.

Integration doesn't mean you have to abandon your roots and core beliefs.