Christian convert sentenced to death

[RD]

Hes seeking asylum now. Wonder what country he will be safe in

Any random western country?

I know you have heard of Salman Rushdie.

Hes still alive, the blessed man, but some of his friends arent or have been the brutalized victim of assassination attempts, such as a Norweigian hero daring to translate the book.

[Lurker]

Only speaks to the great difficulty in spreading Westen values in these Middle Eastern countries. In many cases, they shun freedom, democracy, and the right to live where we would embrace it by choice.

why?

What's free and democratic about executing a man who changed his religion? In a truly free nation, this would have absolutely nothing to do with the State, and would be kept within the religious organizations that were affected.

Western nations in Afghanistan (Canada, US, etc.) are there spreading the right to live as democratic and free people to the country, and presented with this opportunity they turn the other way.

[RD]

Only speaks to the great difficulty in spreading Westen values in these Middle Eastern countries. In many cases, they shun freedom, democracy, and the right to live where we would embrace it by choice.

why?

What's free and democratic about executing a man who changed his religion? In a truly free nation, this would have absolutely nothing to do with the State, and would be kept within the religious organizations that were affected.

Western nations in Afghanistan (Canada, US, etc.) are there spreading the right to live as democratic and free people to the country, and presented with this opportunity they turn the other way.

Yeah, but why do they turn the other way?

[Skjalg]

Maybe because they are trying to hold onto their eon-old values and laws. Maybe in their eyes, they are the only ones left with a little bit of decency.

[Fletch]

Western Civilization isn't that far off from this sort of behavior. A hundred years ago we were lynching black people for looking at white people. Two hundred years ago we were burning people for witchcraft. Five hundred years ago we were destroying entire civilizations based upon religious wars.

This isn't a fight over Western vs Eastern ideas. It's a matter of trying to bring in civilizations into a global society. A lot of these countries have been kept down economically and technologically by advancing Western Civs for a long time. Now they're being dragged into this global state, and they haven't really had the interim period to mature their own civilization.

It reminds me a lot of the failure of communism. Communism required that countries move from an agricultural based society to a fully functioning industrial society before moving to communism. But coutnries tried to move directly from agriculture to communism, and it caused a lot of fuck ups. Now we have 18th century societies being given new weapons, the internet, thousands of works of literature and art, and so much mroe all at the same time, and the expectation is they behave like a 21st century society. It just doesn't work.

[The Postman]

Western Civilization isn't that far off from this sort of behavior. A hundred years ago we were lynching black people for looking at white people. Two hundred years ago we were burning people for witchcraft. Five hundred years ago we were destroying entire civilizations based upon religious wars.

100 years ago? Try 5 years ago. This shit still happens, just not as much. Even 30 years ago there were still lots of lynchings and a new rise given to the KKK.

[Lurker]

Only speaks to the great difficulty in spreading Westen values in these Middle Eastern countries. In many cases, they shun freedom, democracy, and the right to live where we would embrace it by choice.

why?

What's free and democratic about executing a man who changed his religion? In a truly free nation, this would have absolutely nothing to do with the State, and would be kept within the religious organizations that were affected.

Western nations in Afghanistan (Canada, US, etc.) are there spreading the right to live as democratic and free people to the country, and presented with this opportunity they turn the other way.

Yeah, but why do they turn the other way?

Because they don't understand the concept of a free society where people can practice what they want. We still struggle with it, too (read: gay rights). So I mean, the fault lies with no one. It's human nature to want to run things your way, and sometimes forget what is best for the collective.

I think Fletch has a great point: it's like night and day for them. The concepts of freedom and democracy are easy for us to understand because we've already experienced, and still are, the growing pains that come along with it.

[RD]

Western Civilization isn't that far off from this sort of behavior. A hundred years ago we were lynching black people for looking at white people. Two hundred years ago we were burning people for witchcraft. Five hundred years ago we were destroying entire civilizations based upon religious wars.

This isn't a fight over Western vs Eastern ideas. It's a matter of trying to bring in civilizations into a global society. A lot of these countries have been kept down economically and technologically by advancing Western Civs for a long time. Now they're being dragged into this global state, and they haven't really had the interim period to mature their own civilization.

It reminds me a lot of the failure of communism. Communism required that countries move from an agricultural based society to a fully functioning industrial society before moving to communism. But coutnries tried to move directly from agriculture to communism, and it caused a lot of fuck ups. Now we have 18th century societies being given new weapons, the internet, thousands of works of literature and art, and so much mroe all at the same time, and the expectation is they behave like a 21st century society. It just doesn't work.

Its irrelevant how long ago this happened in the west or that it happened at all.

But, if your comparison to our society not so long ago or to a lynching 5years ago, was valid, than it is possible to mature an Afghan like society in 5 years to an advanced superpower. Maybe globalisation, technology and poverty are to blame for some part, but the KKK, the witchhunts and crusades 500years ago werent done because we were poor or technologically behind, it was for a large part Christianity. And in this case religion also has evrything to do with it.

[Izuno]

I just think that it is ironic to think about the issue in an isolated state, regardless of the century or time or place: the penalty for converting away from a religion is death. The irony comes from a Western perspective where there is a general freedom of religion.

However, if where you live religion is equated with nationalism and loyalty and the state, then converting away is sort of like defecting to another government. Not to long ago in the US there were witch hunts for communists. Or think about foreign spies on domestic soil. Treason has historically been a capital crime.

So from that perspective, it's not surprising there was all this muck muck over the local courts contemplating a death sentence.

In the US (and other western states) this becomes a big media issue simply because it's news that will sell, pure and simple. On the flip side, in a way it is an important story simply if it gets westerners more of an opportunity to understand other cultures. To Fletch's point, what are we expecting of cultures that haven't experienced anything else?

[RD]

I just think that it is ironic to think about the issue in an isolated state, regardless of the century or time or place: the penalty for converting away from a religion is death. The irony comes from a Western perspective where there is a general freedom of religion.

However, if where you live religion is equated with nationalism and loyalty and the state, then converting away is sort of like defecting to another government. Not to long ago in the US there were witch hunts for communists. Or think about foreign spies on domestic soil. Treason has historically been a capital crime.

So from that perspective, it's not surprising there was all this muck muck over the local courts contemplating a death sentence.

In the US (and other western states) this becomes a big media issue simply because it's news that will sell, pure and simple. On the flip side, in a way it is an important story simply if it gets westerners more of an opportunity to understand other cultures. To Fletch's point, what are we expecting of cultures that haven't experienced anything else?

It ISNT surprising, and it is all perfectly understandable that they want him dead. I dont mind discussing the broader picture if ppl could grasp it, but unfortunately it all ends with the conclusion that not so long ago we were just like them, and that we shouldnt expect anything else. Its kinda generalising the discussion to a point that isnt necessary.

What we should expect from groups like these, is the same we expected and still expect from the KKK--> to die. When the KKK was lynching blacks, we didnt investigate world history to find out its normal. It has never been normal for us, and we fought the KKK. For these cultures its as normal as it is for the man to be killed.

It deserves to be in the media because this isnt an isolated incident. Ppl have been sentenced to death for converting for a millenium now. In most countries today you get away with losing your social life and going into hiding