9/11 - some scientific stuff to think about it

[RD]

RD you should go play some flight simulator. It's not just "POINT THE FUCKER DOWN AND WOAH WE MADE IT!".

Yeah it is. If you point it down you will crash :roll:

[Minos]

RD you should go play some flight simulator. It's not just "POINT THE FUCKER DOWN AND WOAH WE MADE IT!".

You're basing your knowledge of airplane flight on flight simulators? Wow.

And what do you think the alleged terrorists used to practise ? They had never flew real boings before. What I meant is: If it's already hard to hit such target on flight simulator it must be pretty damn hard in real life.

[Bic-B@ll]

so i had a little discussion with a pilot friend of mine, further reinforcing my belief that it's not all that difficult to fly a plane straight into the side of a building:

[18] me: how likely is it that a 757 can fly low level and hit between the first and second floor when an amateur pilot is flying?

[18] pilot: The didn't aim for a specific floor.

[18] me: give me some fancy terms like "ground effect" and stuff

[18] me: i have one website saying the plane hit the ground and another says it didnt

[18] pilot: ground efect is when lift equals force of gravity and you get stuck like 50 feet above the ground

[18] pilot: they divebombed the pentagon

[18] me: that works when going down too?

[18] me: i dont know about dive bomb

[18] pilot: the set up the autopilot with the coordinates

[18] me: they came in from like 2 miles away

[18] me: you sure about that?

[18] pilot: and then the turned the auto pilot off when they were within visual of the building and then cut power to descend to ground level

[18] me: they came in from the north west

[18] me: flew south east

[18] me: and swung around west -> north

[18] me: and hit it at like 30 degrees

[18] pilot: yeah...they knew what they were doing

[18] pilot: they knew the performance of the airplane

[18] me: how difficult would it be to fly the plane close to the ground though?

[18] me: i dont think it would be super hard

[18] me: but im not a pilot

[18] pilot: you have to land don't you

[18] me: yeah but were talking about guys who have only flown some cessnas a few times

[18] me: it's entirely possible that they flew a 757 low level into the first/second floor of the pentagon?

[18] pilot: no no..they were way more trained then you think

[18] pilot: sure...you really think it's that hard

[18] pilot: a 757 can fly itself

[18] me: i dont

[18] pilot: they are set up so that as soon as you take off you push a button and it flys all the way to ground level

[18] pilot: you push that same button and then the captain lands

[18] me: the thing is so massive and not very sensitive that you can just glide it in?

[18] pilot: commercial airline pilots are there for supervision of the systems

[18] pilot: you can glide it in...it's a bit more complicated than that

[18] pilot: though

[18] pilot: the heaver something is the bigger the dent when it falls

[18] pilot: that's physics

[18] me: i meant steer not really glide

[18] pilot: they have hydraulic systems for 'steering'

[18] pilot: it doesn't take more than your pointer and thumb to fly them

[18] pilot: and if you need more than that, you're trying too had

[18] pilot: hard*

[18] me:

[18] me: i cant find anywhere that decisively says the plane hit the ground

[18] pilot: they were trained

[18] me: there's a big mark on the lawn but it's not from the plane

[18] pilot: many went to flight schools in florida and flew flight simulators

[18] pilot: the mark is from the fire afterwards

[18] me: it's from before 9/11

[18] me: (Link: http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/9-1 ... 9_7_01.jpg)http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/9-11/Pentagon/Pentagon_9_7_01.jpg

[18] me: you can see the line there on the 7th

[18] me: the plane hit just to the left

[18] me: i have a feeling it didn’t hit the ground because the right engine hit the top of a generator

[18] me: and the engines are lower than the body

[18] pilot: yes but if one of the wings dipped then one engine could hit the generator and the other could have been high in the air...or low...in the ground

[18] me: if the engine hit the ground it would be visible though

[18] pilot: this picture is from way before...what side did it hit?

[18] me: i don’t see the point of them going omg roll when they are 5 feet from the building any who

[18] me: top

[18] me: left of the helipad

[18] me: top is west

[18] pilot: not roll

[18] pilot: it would have bee a pilot causes oscillation of the aircraft

[18] me: huh

[18] pilot: meaning that the pilot moved his arm causing one of the wings to dip

[18] me:

[18] pilot: or the trust of one engine was more then the other

[18] pilot: or they hit a pocket of air coming over the highway

[18] me: is there a system that will keep the plane level other than autopilot?

[18] pilot: it could be anything

[18] pilot: no

[18] pilot: there's trim

[18] pilot: it's like cruise control for your steering wheel

[18] me: i don’t think trim would really apply here though

[18] pilot: but the slightest change of airspeed can cause the trim to unsetting causing a slight nose up or nose down attitude

[18] pilot: i'm telling you...

[18] pilot: they cut the power way back in order to have more control at lower speeds

[Section_Ei8ht]

And I had a conversation with God the other day:

[05] me: Hey, God!

[05] God: Hey.

[05] me: so, God, how do you create the universe?

[05] God: I'm God, lol!

[Minos]

That's some interesting stuff bic.

I still need videos or photos of the attack to be 100% sure about it tho

[Minos]

Hey. I was doing some research by myself.

In regards to flight 93 (sources

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/9 ... index.html

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/a ... index.html )

"There's a crater gouged in the earth, the plane is pretty much disintegrated. There's nothing left but scorched trees," said Mark Stahl, of Somerset, who went to the scene.

If I recall this is the first 757 to ever desintegrate after a crash in history. (this one was also pointed out on the video)

The man told dispatchers the plane "was going down. He heard some sort of explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane and we lost contact with him," Cramer said.

Did the terrorists explode gas canisters ? As far as I know they were carrying plastic knives only.

"There's nothing in the ground you can see," Monaco said of the crash site. "It just looks like tiny pieces of debris."

"The plane is thoroughly disintegrated," Jim Marker of Somerset County's 911 Emergency Management Center told CNN. "There are no remains, no survivors.

Alien laser beams ?

[Bic-B@ll]

how many 757s have gone nose down into the ground at 580 mph at a near 90 degree angle (An eyewitness observed that Flight 93 “hit the ground at almost a 90-degree angle » - USA Today, 9/12/01)? The crater it left was 115 ft deep. you're going to see a bunch of websites that say "this is what a real jet crash looks like!" and see a bunch of pictures of failed landings or some shit.

here's the crash site 11 days after:

here are some crashes for you:

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w770327.htm

these two planes collided while still on the ground, and left that

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w850812.htm

there’s a 747 somewhere in there

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w740303.htm

DC-10 crash

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w800819.htm

a fire can burn right through the fuselage

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w790525.htm

whoa, probably not much left there

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w940426.htm

wee some more

my point is that planes can be torn apart easily, they're built to take the stresses of flying, not be crash proof or anything. shocks on the wheels and the cushioning on your seat is all you get. fly that bigass thing at 580 mph into the ground at a steep angle and i bet not much would be left. not to mention that every picture you will see of the crash is from a distance away where all you see is the berm/ridge of the crater with a small amount of debris, for all we know there could be bodies and shit inside the hole.

besides, what would be the motive of crashing a plane in the middle of nowhere? i can see the motive of the government trying to go to war and taking down two big towers and a military building, but sending a cruise missile into a field in bumfuck nowhere? why?

legitimate plane crash?

[Minos]

The links you posted just prooved that planes don't desintegrate in crashes.

[Kosmo]

The links you posted just prooved that planes don't desintegrate in crashes.

QFT

All the pictures Bic posted just shows very large parts of planes, where in the case of Pentagon and Flight 93 there is absolutely nothing.

True, Aircraft grade aluminium can rip to pieces and fly everywhere, but the chances of it disintegrating and leaving not a single large piece (cockpit, winds, tailsection all reinforced) in sight not to mention the smaller debris that has usually flown about like chairs, toilets and such in two separate cases is straight zero.

As for if there was some sort of conspiracy and why would they shoot a missile on the ground, all we can do is speculate, there are hundreds of valid reasons.

[The Postman]

The links you posted just prooved that planes don't desintegrate in crashes.

And neither did the flight that hit the Pentagon.

[RD]

You guys know that there are phone calls made to the plane while they are attacking the terrorist pilots right? That there are recordings of the terrorists themselves saying there is a bomb on the plane, from within the cockpit? That the plane didnt completely disintegrate and that nobody saw a missile?

[st0lve]

nobody saw the bomb afaik.

[RD]

nobody saw the bomb afaik.

What bomb?

[Minos]

You guys know that there are phone calls made to the plane while they are attacking the terrorist pilots right? That there are recordings of the terrorists themselves saying there is a bomb on the plane, from within the cockpit? That the plane didnt completely disintegrate and that nobody saw a missile?

Funny enough, the chances of a cell phone to work in such altitudes were minimum at that time (not to say impossible). And if you saw the video stepp posted, one of the alleged passengers phoned his mum and left a message. He starts with something like "Hy mum, this is john smith" (who phones his own mum and say his full name ?) Anyways, it's very suspicious at least.

Just to add to the whole conspiracy theory:

I remember some strange things the brazilian reporters said live:

"Apparently a truck bomb has just exploded in the pentagon"

And then, 3 or 4 hours after the WTC collapsed they invited an engineer who was on the WTC area and he said it was nearly impossible for the towers to collapse with only the planes crash and the subsequent fire.

[Ginger Lord]

they didnt fly the plane at low level, they crashed it. o m g

Sorry, my mistake, they were obviously flying it at high level into the first floor.

Edit: As for planes flying themselves, sure they can do it. But they are programmed before takeoff (I dunno, do the pilots do it, or some technicians?) either way I doubt they programmed that plane to fly into the Pentagon. So that means the "bad guys" did it, these people that could barely fly Cessna's manage to program a 757 to fly...

Sure its possible...but the amount of "what if" that happened that day is hard to believe.