In war its interrogation, not torture you dumb U.N.!

[mawibse]

A U.N. investigation has concluded that the United States committed acts amounting to torture at Guantanamo Bay.

American officials said the most significant flaw of the report was that it judged U.S. treatment of detainees according to peacetime human rights laws. The United States contends it is in a state of conflict and should be judged according to the laws of war.

So torture is not torture when in a war?

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/02/13/un ... index.html

[st0lve]

Its torture no matter what situation.

[The Postman]

It's torture no matter what. Cut the damned doublespeak out, Mawibse.

Come on, what you're saying is tantamount to shouting "WHY DON'T YOU LOVE AMERICA?" in response to a valid accusation.

[mawibse]

Perhaps the word torture is a bit misleading, we are talking about sleep deprivation, prolonged solitary confinement and force feeding of starvers, common "stress and duress" techniques. Not pulling fingernails or electric shocks!

Also the U.N investigators has not even been to Guantanamo Bay, despite being invited.

And The Postman, it's the validity of the accusations i'm discussing, not some persons lack of love for the biggest upholder of democratic values in the universe.

[Fletch]

Perhaps the word torture is a bit misleading, we are talking about sleep deprivation, prolonged solitary confinement and force feeding of starvers, common "stress and duress" techniques. Not pulling fingernails or electric shocks!

Yeah, don't forget the getting naked and piling up in human pyramids, having bags taped over your head as people take pictures to send home to loved ones Good thing they were being interrogated.

[mawibse]

That was wrong.

But I was refering to Guantanamo Bay, not an incident in war zone where the guards got out of hand, whom has been punished for their actions btw.

[RD]

Id rather have my nails pulled out than my mind dying of white noise and sleep deprivation

[The Postman]

Yeah, don't forget the getting naked and piling up in human pyramids, having bags taped over your head as people take pictures to send home to loved ones Good thing they were being interrogated.

Or being put into sleeping bags and subjected to extreme heat after a massive beating.

We don't torture though, nuh uh. Really. Serious here.

That was wrong.

But I was refering to Guantanamo Bay, not an incident in war zone where the guards got out of hand, whom has been punished for their actions btw.

I'm sure it's just a few bad apples, and not supported, documented procedure. :

[Lurker]

Question for mawibse:

Have you been to Gitmo Bay?

What makes statements made by your opposition conjecture and your's true?

By the way, I'd like you to produce a credible source to back up your statement about the investigators being invited to Gitmo Bay and given access to the materials they needed. As far as I know of, no UN or human rights group has been allowed inside of the camp to do the necessary work to uncover the truth.

Note: a source other than the one used in the CNN article, ie. someone not biased towards their own cause (Richard Grenell).

I find it really sad that the government is attacking those who are looking out for the wellbeing of fellow human beings. Another example of the US government supporting a group when they support their position and casting them aside as crazies when they don't.

[mawibse]

Have you been to Gitmo Bay?

No, but its like a large prison run by millitaries.

Is there something specific you want to know about it?

What makes statements made by your opposition conjecture and your's true?

Lets not get philosophical in this thread shall we.

I'd like you to produce a credible source to back up your statement about the investigators being invited to Gitmo Bay

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.a ... 26&sid=WOR

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/20 ... 135746/024

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... tmo01.html

Id rather have my nails pulled out than my mind dying of white noise and sleep deprivation

Well that sounds really tough n all but... I dont believe it for a second.

Another example of the US government supporting a group when they support their position and casting them aside as crazies when they don't.

Hmmm Wasn't there a really big smear campaign in the US of a UN weapon inspector prior to the Iraq invasion?

I'm sure it's just a few bad apples, and not supported, documented procedure.

So am I.

[Lurker]

Ah, I just wanted to know what made you so sure you were right. Not so sure what makes your opinion more credible than the others voiced in this thread...?

[RD]

Id rather have my nails pulled out than my mind dying of white noise and sleep deprivation

Well that sounds really tough n all but... I dont believe it for a second.

Ok maybe not, but those psychological tricks are just a little step down the ladder of horror

[mawibse]

Not so sure what makes your opinion more credible than the others voiced in this thread...?

It's not more credible, its an opinion, opinions are not meassured on credibility alone but mostly if and why you do or do not share them.

but those psychological tricks are just a little step down the ladder of horror

True, but like you said, they are a step down.

And in a war you certainly take a few steps up that ladder.

[The Postman]

Mawibse, what would it take for you to admit that we torture people? We have documented videos of prisoner beatings, accounts of "renditioning" ( :roll: ) techniques that have killed prisoners, literally hundreds of photos from Abu Grahib and Gitmo, accusations by the EU of CIA run secret prisons in Poland (the irony of the placement is not lost on me). What does it take? The president admitting personally "We torture people, what are you gonna do about it? Ha!" I get the feeling then you'd simply justify it.

[Scraps]

A U.N. investigation has concluded that the United States committed acts amounting to torture at Guantanamo Bay.

American officials said the most significant flaw of the report was that it judged U.S. treatment of detainees according to peacetime human rights laws. The United States contends it is in a state of conflict and should be judged according to the laws of war.

So torture is not torture when in a war?

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/02/13/un ... index.html

If we're in a war, how come they aren't accorded POW rights?