The faces of Muhammad

[kleinluka]

no comment...

[⌐■_■]

FFS, open your eyes man!

[Steppenwolf]

you gotta love the islamic press

[RD]

Respect in the middle east:

a) Religious persecution of individuals (human rights abuse): This persecution is conducted against individuals because of their religious affiliation. In Saudi Arabia and Iran, for examples, individuals are punished for displaying crosses or stars of David, jailed for praying in public, and in some cases punished by death, for not complying with the religious tenants. In these countries, as well as in Egypt and Sudan, converts to Christianity are sentenced to death.

converts to Christianity are sentenced to death.

converts to Christianity are sentenced to death.

And no Posty, this isnt a tiny group of extremists.

[The Postman]

Look at the islamic states how they are organized, dictatures, national proud, religious proud, hate against everything that is different then themselves. This is very fascist to me.

No, actually that's just a closed state with a fundamentalist power. If you want, call it a Fundamentalist state. There isn't anything fascist in what you've just described other than perhaps nationalism, but that's so intertwined with religion over there that it's not wholly here nor there.

The word fascism must not be used of the context its origin. Everything that has things in common with it can be called fascist if you didnt know that. Even the soviet communism in the former ussr had things in common with fascist ideas.

Stalinist states did have certain aspects of fascism but to be perfectly honest the only real fascist state ever was Italy during WW2. National Socialism differs because of its economic policy and several other factors.

you know little about national socialism. If you didnt know Hitler and especialy Himmler were about to form a new kind of national religion based on old germanic myths etc.

Oh man, you're telling me I don't know anything about NS? Himmler was crazy with the germanic myths and all that weird shit. Hitler tolerated his nuttiness so long as it never opposed his regime. Oddly enough Himmler actually tried to seek peace with the World Jewish Council near the end of the war and Hitler fired him for it, not that it really mattered, they were all pretty much out of a job at that point. The point is that it was never taken seriously at all, ever.

Open your eyes if you dont see similaritys between the islamic world and national socialist/fascist regimes. You argue about word definitions etc but what counts is how people are tretened and how people are treatend who think different :roll:

The Islamics hate Jews because of religious reasons. The Nazis hated Jews for racial and perceived economic reasons. THEORY DESTROYED. :monocle:

[The Postman]

no comment...

Yeah, two countries hate each other now because of an insult slung by the first. Does this excuse the actions? No. Does it explain them? Yes.

Respect in the middle east:

a) Religious persecution of individuals (human rights abuse): This persecution is conducted against individuals because of their religious affiliation. In Saudi Arabia and Iran, for examples, individuals are punished for displaying crosses or stars of David, jailed for praying in public, and in some cases punished by death, for not complying with the religious tenants. In these countries, as well as in Egypt and Sudan, converts to Christianity are sentenced to death.

converts to Christianity are sentenced to death.

converts to Christianity are sentenced to death.

And no Posty, this isnt a tiny group of extremists.

Yes it is. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that any citizen of the United States is, by extension, personally responsible, and personally carries out its laws.

Your point is moot. You're attempting an emotional appeal instead of arguing the points reasonably. You're also going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the topic of discussion.

Do the cartoons that were drawn inspire disgust and anger in anyone of Islamic faith? Yes.

Does free speech protect such drawings? Yes.

Does free speech keep people from being insulted, angered or disgusted by such drawings? No.

Does lowering one's self to the level of antagonism and bigotry of the Fundamentalist Islamic states make us better than them? No.

Does deliberately antagonizing the Fundamentalist Islamic states do anything to secure peace or foster understanding between the two cultures? No.

Are the European states deliberately antagonizing the Fundamentalist Islamic states by reprinting these cartoons after the facr? Yes.

Is that helping? No.

That's the nuts and bolts of it. Go post some more pictures, though.

[RD]

Does deliberately antagonizing the Fundamentalist Islamic states do anything to secure peace or foster understanding between the two cultures? No.

Its only natural for humans to get used to things that repeat. They'll get used to it.

converts to Christianity are sentenced to death

Take another look at that tell me your mind isnt warping itself to find excuses. You are basically saying all muslims are apes when you say we should accept this because they are only muslims.

[RD]

Yes it is. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that any citizen of the United States is, by extension, personally responsible, and personally carries out its laws.

Now you are shoving the blaim to the dictatorship. Which doesnt matter, its the same problem. You just keep finding excuses, "its just a minority of extremists, its just the government". So what, its still a problem. Its not racist to adress it

[The Postman]

Yes it is. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that any citizen of the United States is, by extension, personally responsible, and personally carries out its laws.

Now you are shoving the blaim to the dictatorship. Which doesnt matter, its the same problem. You just keep finding excuses, "its just a minority of extremists, its just the government". So what, its still a problem. Its not racist to adress it

First off: http://www.dictionary.com

Secondly, the blame is on the dictatorship. It's their fault for how their nation's react and how they foster such sentiment. I'm not finding excuses. Unlike you I'm using reasoning to figure out what's the matter before I start jerking my knee.

Its only natural for humans to get used to things that repeat. They'll get used to it.

You're reaching here and making no point.

Take another look at that tell me your mind isnt warping itself to find excuses. You are basically saying all muslims are apes when you say we should accept this because they are only muslims.

What the hell are you even trying to say here?

[RD]

Yes it is. What you're saying is tantamount to saying that any citizen of the United States is, by extension, personally responsible, and personally carries out its laws.

Now you are shoving the blaim to the dictatorship. Which doesnt matter, its the same problem. You just keep finding excuses, "its just a minority of extremists, its just the government". So what, its still a problem. Its not racist to adress it

First off: http://www.dictionary.com

Secondly, the blame is on the dictatorship. It's their fault for how their nation's react and how they foster such sentiment. I'm not finding excuses. Unlike you I'm using reasoning to figure out what's the matter before I start jerking my knee.

So finally you agree there is no need to apologize because the blame is at their side

and OT: point me to my spelling error

[DaanO]

Whoa RD that's insane. *Especially* because the Koran mentions that Christians and Sabians that believe in God and in the last day also just go to 'heaven'. Islam used to be very tolerant (freedom of religion), in the Middle Ages some Christian groups even preferred to be under control by Muslim government than by the Holy Roman Empire. I'm really curious how it's come this far, does your source say since when those laws have been in effect and why they were instated?

[The Postman]

So finally you agree there is no need to apologize because the blame is in fact at their side?

Read, comprehend, post. I was saying that the blame for the state of fundamentalism in the Middle East rests solely on the shoulders of their governments and how wound up they are with the state-fostered religion.

There is a need to apologize (which has already happened, but it should've happened sooner) because the west should be above letting a cartoon by one country's newspapers disintegrate international relations by antagonizing them further and then acting self-righteous about it.

My point is this: The Islamic states have a right to be insulted, disgusted and angered at this cartoon. You seem to think they're over-reacting because of their own screwed up world view. Those two things don't even correlate. They have a screwed up world view because they're so fundamentalist about their religion. Antagonizing that and then expecting them to act rationally and not realize any sort of hypocrisy is just fucking blind.

I'd like to ask why you're not addressing any of the other points I made previously that go against many of your arguments with fairly clear logic.

OT: point me to my spelling error.

"blaim" and others throughout this and other threads.

Whoa RD that's insane. *Especially* because the Koran mentions that Christians and Sabians that believe in God and in the last day also just go to 'heaven'. Islam used to be very tolerant (freedom of religion), in the Middle Ages some Christian groups even preferred to be under control by Muslim government than by the Holy Roman Empire. I'm really curious how it's come this far, does your source say since when those laws have been in effect and why they were instated?

racial and religious differences were fostered during European colonialism!

[RD]

Whoa RD that's insane. *Especially* because the Koran mentions that Christians and Sabians that believe in God and in the last day also just go to 'heaven'. Islam used to be very tolerant (freedom of religion), in the Middle Ages some Christian groups even preferred to be under control by Muslim government than by the Holy Roman Empire. I'm really curious how it's come this far, does your source say since when those laws have been in effect and why they were instated?

Are you talking about the death sentence thing? Its sharia law.

Its not done evrywhere, but converting is considered treason and definitely not acceptable.

[DaanO]

Then what about Christians already living in the country or immigrating, visiting, diplomats?

[RD]

Theyre not converts and theyre not visibly christian outside their churches. Its not just christians btw, converting to any other religion, even atheism is treason