The root of all evil: the human being itself?

[RD]

Just think about it, what makes our decisions? Where does a thought begin?

The exact state of the brains at the moment of a "decision" is what makes it, and brains is where a thought begins and ends.

Think of a brain as a physical object, like a rock for example. How can it decide to change its state and make a decision by itself? Just like a computer cant truly make its own choices because, in the end it is always programmed.

And how much control do you have over your decisions when you have no control whatsoever over the moment your thoughts are born?

Simply mindboggling!

[mawibse]

Think of a brain as a physical object, like a rock for example. How can it decide to change its state and make a decision by itself? Just like a computer cant truly make its own choices because, in the end it is always programmed.

And how much control do you have over your decisions when you have no control whatsoever over the moment your thoughts are born?

Simply mindboggling!

Well the brains is a physical object so...

Lets go with the fairy tale soul and say that the soul is a non physical thingamabob that gets information from the brains and then sends back decisions.

What would that add? Nothing. It would still base its decisions on what the physical brains gives it just as the brains would.

I dont get what the soul would add in regards to "truly make its own choices"?

[RD]

Well, evrything you see, hear or feel is processed by your brain and reaches your consciousness/subconsciousness a moment after it has actually happened. Theres an even longer moment before the brain reacts to it. For us it seems like a nano second, but for the soul it could be a thousand years! It is the most important nano second of the universe for us, our thoughtbirth singularity. Just think about it mabwise!

What it adds is instead of us being drones to this nano moment we are masters of it.

[The Postman]

Well, evrything you see, hear or feel is processed by your brain and reaches your consciousness/subconsciousness a moment after it has actually happened. Theres an even longer moment before the brain reacts to it. For us it seems like a nano second, but for the soul it could be a thousand years! It is the most important nano second of the universe for us, our thoughtbirth singularity. Just think about it mabwise!

What it adds is instead of us being drones to this nano moment we are masters of it.

Again, you're assuming there's a soul. RD, do you have any philosophical readings or articles to back this stuff up or are you just waxing crazy like you're wont to do?

[RD]

No Posty, i dont have proof. Only my friend logic seems to agree with me

[The Postman]

No Posty, i dont have proof. Only my friend logic seems to agree with me

Uh...how is that logic? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[DaanO]

Philosophical back-up? Read Sartre, use your imagination and then some more of it and you might end up at a point in thinking that vaguely resembles what rd is talking about. Or just read Sartre and follow his views. Personally, i think the wrong assumption in this debate is the existence of will itself (which is, by definition, always a free will because else it is no will at all). That is one thing i highly doubt. I see it as a model to understanding the world - and it can work wonders - but i really doubt it has any value when it comes to a metaphysical _reality_. Because people are trying to reason whether there's a will or a free will (how strange, really) they are getting stuck trying to find an answer where there ain't even a question. This assumption is ruining the debate.

[Pericolos0]

postman are you suggesting you are some kind of unconscious robot? I agree with rd, everything we percieve is first processed throught our brains. Everything we perceive can be a big illusion, we simply do not know what is real and what not or even what consciousness (the soul) is. It's one of the biggist enigmas ever

[The Postman]

postman are you suggesting you are some kind of unconscious robot? I agree with rd, everything we percieve is first processed throught our brains. Everything we perceive can be a big illusion, we simply do not know what is real and what not or even what consciousness (the soul) is. It's one of the biggist enigmas ever

Not at all. I'm pointing out that RD is making the assumption that we have a soul. That is all. He says it's logical to assume there's a soul. There's nothing logical about assumption, it's simply guessing.

[RD]

The logic i was referring to is that IF we have (free) will (which basically all of humanity blindly assumes), than it is only logical we have a soul. You asked me if i had any articles or philosophical readings to back it up, but you only need logic to follow this line of thought. I am glad to see i am not being crazy but wise men thruout all eras of time have reached the same conclusions

[DaanO]

Since it is impossible for humans to go against the laws of physics (jump to the moon because you want to), there needs to be something transcedental if there would a free will. This is something that all philosophers, no matter how different their views are, agree on.

[The Postman]

The logic i was referring to is that IF we have (free) will (which basically all of humanity blindly assumes), than it is only logical we have a soul.

Again, this is an assumption and a leap of faith. Explain it instead of just assuming it's true or "logical."

[RD]

If you have no control over the moment your thoughts are born, then you have no free will. In this infinitely short moment we simply cant consciously make choices. It would be like blinking your eye and halfway thru deciding to stop it. This either means we are just drones reacting to worldly impulses or there is actually something intelligent and conscious controlling our will. Is that a good enough explanation?

[Erratic]

Pfft, thought isn't real.

[DaanO]

You are now simply assuming that once a proces of reacting to the world has started, a human being can not interfere (because of consciousness for example). Why wouldn't it be possible for a being to make a fundamentally free choice later in life, breaking the circle? Your reasoning is therefor based on the assumption (which is basically the same as the former) that humans cannot go against the laws of nature and are simply processing units of worldly impulses. You're using the assumption of no free choices to prove that there's no free choices.