Is torture ok?

[jfas]

dude #1 - "dude #2 is a pacifist"

dude #3 - "pacifist? you mean a BITCH"

dude #2 - "hey man if thats what you wanna call it"

^^ thats a true story, and what a hardcore pacifist he is

[ginsengavenger]

dude is a real pacifist

[mawibse]

And dude#3 is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

And it goes without saying that you can be 100% sure of something without being 100% correct so there will always be innocent getting hurt.

But honestly, do we care?

[Kosmo]

dude #2 - "hey man if thats what you wanna call it"

I think that it is very common answer if you ask anyone about something like that. I myself am a civilservice man (I didn't go to the army), pacifist to certain extent, and I have been absolutist and a vegan, so you can imagine that combination in a country where people still worship people who go to the army (around 70-80% of young men in Finland go to army) and are all around walking hardons, the amount of wise cracking assjockeys I have tolerated so it is very common for a guy like me to say "just call it what the fuck floats your boat I simply couldn't give rats ass about your narrowminded views."

So give a break and stop grinding everyones ass.

[GrayFox]

I myself am a civilservice man (I didn't go to the army)

You missed an experience of a lifetime. I didn't find the army to be a very violent place. Sure they teach you how to shoot and fight but you don't do those things to others. Shooting at some targets and punching some bags is no worse than killing people in video games. Totally harmless.

So pacifists that don't go to the army for that reason and still play violent games are, to some extent, hypocrates (IMO).

Maybe my view is a bit black and white at the moment. I need to meditate on this.

[Kosmo]

My pacifistic toughts didn't stop me from going in to the army, the fact that finnish goverment spends 2 billion euros of taxpayers money every single year to fund our beloved "experience of a lifetime."

And after all that our country has homeless people, goverment cuts back it's services and public companies like VR (railroads) and Posti (postal service) loses more and more funding and resorts to stupid cutbacks, not to mention the funding schools get and the study grant are both rediculous.

This country doesn't care one bit of it's citizens, if they did, Finland would be more like Sweden. But we are a capitalistic country ran by selected elite.

[GrayFox]

My pacifistic toughts didn't stop me from going in to the army, the fact that finnish goverment spends 2 billion euros of taxpayers money every single year to fund our beloved "experience of a lifetime."

And after all that our country has homeless people, goverment cuts back it's services and public companies like VR (railroads) and Posti (postal service) loses more and more funding and resorts to stupid cutbacks, not to mention the funding schools get and the study grant are both rediculous.

Because you weren't in the army doesn't change anything and people don't pay any less taxes. You might as well experience what you are paying for. Some of the memories I have from my time in the army are priceless.

The good thing about the army is that it really makes many people mentally tougher (also physically, but that's less important) and they become more responsible individuals.

This country doesn't care one bit of it's citizens, if they did, Finland would be more like Sweden. But we are a capitalistic country ran by selected elite.

Please don't be so narrowminded.

[Kosmo]

My pacifistic toughts didn't stop me from going in to the army, the fact that finnish goverment spends 2 billion euros of taxpayers money every single year to fund our beloved "experience of a lifetime."

And after all that our country has homeless people, goverment cuts back it's services and public companies like VR (railroads) and Posti (postal service) loses more and more funding and resorts to stupid cutbacks, not to mention the funding schools get and the study grant are both rediculous.

Because you weren't in the army doesn't change anything and people don't pay any less taxes. You might as well experience what you are paying for. Some of the memories I have from my time in the army are priceless.

The good thing about the army is that it really makes many people mentally tougher (also physically, but that's less important) and they become more responsible individuals.

You mean like, if I donate money to the red cross but it won't save everyone, I shouldn't do it? If I don't accept something, but it doesn't change anything, it's meaningless? You got some twisted mind there.

And it's straight bullshit that Army somehow magically transforms you in anyway or another, as well I could say that civilservice turns you man because often the job is hard, the pay sucks and if you try anything funny you go straight to prison. But I know that is bullshit also so I won't say it.

If you are a sack of shit when you go to the army you are one when you come back from there, it's up to you yourself to make the change. And usually it happens when you grow up and realize that life isn't that easy anymore.

This country doesn't care one bit of it's citizens, if they did, Finland would be more like Sweden. But we are a capitalistic country ran by selected elite.

Please don't be so narrowminded.

It's narrowminded to think that army changes you in someway.

[RD]

Kosmo, its like that in every country. The world isnt perfect, just take a look at yourself and what your doing to help all these poor ppl, nothing. Doesnt mean you dont care does it?

The reason you think too much money goes to your army, is PEACE.

[Kosmo]

Kosmo, its like that in every country. The world isnt perfect, just take a look at yourself and what your doing to help all these poor ppl, nothing. Doesnt mean you dont care does it?

The reason you think too much money goes to your army, is PEACE.

So what if it is the same in the whole world, does it make it ok? Or does it make it so that no one should make anything about it?

I donate as much to charities as I can, last year alone I donated around 200€ to Finnish Red Cross. I went to civilservice not to be a burden to the society, atleast I didn't COST anything to the goverment as opposite to those who chose to go to the army.

And ofcourse I think that Finnish defence forces spend too much money to upkeep because of peace, but finland has around the same amount of soldiers in reserve than Norway and Sweden put together, not to mention tanks and helichopters and all that shit.

[GrayFox]

You mean like, if I donate money to the red cross but it won't save everyone, I shouldn't do it? If I don't accept something, but it doesn't change anything, it's meaningless? You got some twisted mind there.

You can't compare donating money to charity with boycotting the army. Both charity and the army are ultimately for a good cause, atleast here in Finland. The army is not for war, it's for defence and security. (NOTE: atleast in Finland).

What I'm trying to say is that boycotting the army won't do any good to anyone.

And it's straight bullshit that Army somehow magically transforms you in anyway or another

You haven't experienced it so you can't say anything about this. I didn't personally change much, but I saw A LOT of growth in others' personalities.

People are the sum of their experiences and the army is one hell of an experience.

This country doesn't care one bit of it's citizens, if they did, Finland would be more like Sweden. But we are a capitalistic country ran by selected elite.

Please don't be so narrowminded.

It's narrowminded to think that army changes you in someway.

No, for many people it's a fact.

[⌐■_■]

This thing has gone very much off-topic.

GrayFox FTW!

Whooo!

[GrayFox]

This thing has gone very much off-topic.

This usually happens on page 2 in every mapcore thread.

[Kosmo]

You mean like, if I donate money to the red cross but it won't save everyone, I shouldn't do it? If I don't accept something, but it doesn't change anything, it's meaningless? You got some twisted mind there.

You can't compare donating money to charity with boycotting the army. Both charity and the army are ultimately for a good cause, atleast here in Finland. The army is not for war, it's for defence and security. (NOTE: atleast in Finland)

Well, you really can't compare the "good" cause of the army to the really good cause of a charity like SPR now can you.

And it's straight bullshit that Army somehow magically transforms you in anyway or another

You haven't experienced it so you can't say anything about this. I didn't personally change much, but I saw A LOT of growth in others' personalities.

People are the sum of their experiences and the army is one hell of an experience.

I agree, it might be a hell of an experience, and I agree that people are the sum of it's parts, but I just can't agree that when one goes to the army he all of a sudden becomes a better person, or worse person.

I have friends who have gone to the army and I have friends who have taken the civilservice, neither of them are dramatically different from each other. I even have one who got release from army because he had overweight, and he isn't that different either.

I went in to the theater last week, I'm a now culturally savey?

If you worked there for like 20 years, then you'd definedly be different from others, and even more different if you went in to some sort of military school. But some 6 months of camp can't change person dramatically.

This country doesn't care one bit of it's citizens, if they did, Finland would be more like Sweden. But we are a capitalistic country ran by selected elite.

Please don't be so narrowminded.

It's narrowminded to think that army changes you in someway.

No, for many people it's a fact.

And some people think Genesis is a fact.

[GrayFox]

And it's straight bullshit that Army somehow magically transforms you in anyway or another

You haven't experienced it so you can't say anything about this. I didn't personally change much, but I saw A LOT of growth in others' personalities.

People are the sum of their experiences and the army is one hell of an experience.

I agree, it might be a hell of an experience, and I agree that people are the sum of it's parts, but I just can't agree that when one goes to the army he all of a sudden becomes a better person, or worse person.

I didn't say everyone changes and I didn't say you become a better/worse person, but some do change. These changes aren't necessarily noticable to you.