Dumb Design vs Intelligent design

[The Postman]

Oh Kansas. Ignorance capital of the United States.

[Kosmo]

Oh my, so they actually vote for something without proper argumentation?

"Oh dear, I kinda like this whatchamacallit, I think I'll vote for it, and for the third time NO! I won't explain my self!"

[ginsengavenger]

On a lot of road signs in Kansas they have written, "Keep Kansas Clean"... I always think to myself, they're missing the third 'K'..

[mawibse]

Even the Vatikan approves of darwanian theory these days, but not Kansas.

[Kosmo]

Well, the true official view of Vatican isn't that clear yet, there have been announcements and columns tossing this subject around.

As for news item I remember seeing was that some Cardinal from Vatican distanced their view of fundamentalist views of evolution having no room in christian world, and said that Darwinian theory of evolution and Genesis are "perfectly compatible" if the Bible were read correctly.

As for how the Universe came to be, he clearly stated his opinion that God was responsible of this and it didn't create itself.

The Italians took this statement as a rejection of "Intelligent Design" from Vaticans part.

I think it is a smart move, since we can clearly see that just mere faith don't cure diseases nor will it take you to work better than modern automobile.

[Kosmo]

When the dumb fall, the smart must help them up and guide them to the right path.

Today NAS (National Academy of Sciences) and NSTA (National Science Teachers Association) are forbidding the public schools of the State of Kansas to use their copyrighted science educations standards manuals because Kansas has decided to teach "Intelligent Design" as a viable alternative theory to evolution. In order for the public schools of Kansas to continue teaching the official science programs the State must rewrite its proposal.

[RD]

awesum

Posty: Since RD doesn't comprehend the English language, I'll help him:

awe·some Audio pronunciation of "awesome" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ôsm)

adj.

1. Inspiring awe: an awesome thunderstorm.

2. Expressing awe: stood in awesome silence before the ancient ruins.

3. Slang. Remarkable; outstanding: “a totally awesome arcade game” (Los Angeles Times).

[The Postman]

awesum

Learn how to spell you ignorant mass. This is a terrible day for science and learning. Naturally your wacky ass thinks it's great though. Go post more about alien rape or something.

[Pericolos0]

i find this hilarious. People that are not scientists redefined science so it would fit their philosophy. The way they defined it now, even astrology can be considered science.

bible study is a science now!

its also amazing how the catholic church has be come the more progressive denomination.

[Fletch]

Well seeing as A) I'm the only person here who as lived in Kansas and b) I'm the only person here who has worked in Kansas politics, I'll explain some things surrounding this vote.

First, almost every person in this state is pissed off about the new education standards. Every school district. Every college. Every business even tangentially connected to science. The problem is Kansas politics is dominated by one very small group with a very loud voice: far-right social conservatives. Now I'm not going to blame this on religion, because the vast majority of the state is very religious and does not agree with this first group. The problem is that this group keeps getting a big voice in almost every political decision. And it all has to do with population density.

Go google a map of Kansas right now. It's pretty much a big rectangle. The problem is that that the population is almost all at the far eastern edge in Kansas City, KS and the surrounding suburbs. A little farther west from there you get Lawrence (where I lived and where University of Kansas is), then Topkea (the capitol), then Manhatten (where Kansas State University is). Directly south from there is Witchita. And that is about it as far as population centers go. The western 2/3rds of the state is almost all rural farm and ranch land. If you happened to visit this part of the state you would notice that is is very flat and appears to be stuck in 1950.

Western Kansas has nothing going for it. NOTHING. Farms and ranhes don't make money like they used to, so the entire area is economically depressed. If you want a good job, you leave. If your kids want a good job, they go east to one of the state colleges, and then they leave. If you can't afford college, you go into the military and leave. Which means a lot of people are stuck their entire lives out there. The infrastructure sucks because there is no profit to be had in improving it. That means most people don't have cable TV (unless you live in one of the larger towns like Salina or Junction City), broadband internet (or 56K for that matter), or many other things a lot of us would find to be basic parts of our standard of living. So if you want something to do, you lsiten to AM radio, you go to church, or you work longer.

So why is this imporant, and what the hell does any of this ahve to do with evolution? Well West Kansas, while comprising about 66% of the state's land, only comprises about 25% of the population. And it's all spread out. So almost all of the elected offices out there are giant districts that are incredibly hard to get around in because all the raods are shit. So if you're running for Congress, State Senate, State Rep, School Board, etc you've got to find a way to get across to a lot of people who don't watch TV or read the daily news (or catch it on cable networks or the internet). So you've got to find people where they congregate. Church. And your ads have to be in a medium they pay attention to. AM Radio. That is why conservatives win out there. Which is also why some rather extreme personailties get elected, too. Rational, well educated people who are from the area, leave. So you get bitter people who stayed and probably didn't get any education past high school.

So the school board always gets about 3 or 4 people from that area because some districts overlay more moderate, populated sections. Those people didn't run because they care about education. They ran so they could have a bully pulpit and spew their ideology. Most of them don't really see the point in having an education past high school. Most of them have really negative views of the state universities (which are luckily not governed by them). So they don't really care whether students are prepared for college or the workplace. They're more worried about whether the kids will stay on the farm.

So every few years, this shit happens. But in 2006, 4 of those seats are open and will most likely be replaced by some high shcool principals or other people form the area with some degree of education who will be very well funded from outside interests. They'll win the seats, take over the majority, and switch the ruling. Then in 8 or 10 years, it iwll flip again. It's Western Kansas politics, and it never changes.

The thing that gets missed in all of this is that the local school districts actually ahve finally say over curriculum. I'd say 95% of the districts teach evolution with no problem. 5% in Western Kansas don't teach evolution, have long lectures about Creationism or ID, and it's what those towns want. The smart kids from those school end up leaving anyways.

The people getting the shaft are the new teachers. KU's School of Education is having a hard time convincing freshly graduated teachers to go to West Kansas to teach. They know that the pay is low, the communities are hostile towards education, and the social life kind of sucks, too. So West Kansas tends to get the shittiest teachers on the market, and they don't even get enough of them, so all the classes are overcrowded.

In the end, it keeps Education as a top issue in statewide races. The governor is actually a Democrat (the state is like 55% Republican, 25% Democrate, and 20% Independent) who is a huge backer of education. It looks like she's going to win re-election in a landslide because all of her Republican challengers are looking expectionally hostile toward Education. So in the end, the social conservatives picked a big fight over standards which are in the end optional, and the Democrats get to keep the Governor. Democrats won.

[DD]

The problem is Kansas politics is dominated by one very small group with a very loud voice: far-right social conservatives.

This is a problem over-whelming America. At one time America stood for freedom, liberation, but the way things are going we keep getting farther and farther from that due to hypocritical conservative groups using those same ideas to do just the opposite.

These groups of hardcore assholes are able to stick together and lobby control in politics, while very few intelligent, sane people do the same.

Imagine the conversation that took place in the mind of the intelligent design theorist.

Theorist: Okay, so seriously, scientist guy, like every creature as it is today was invented by God. The Bible says so.

Scientist: No, proven facts and reasoning show that all life evolved from simple life forms. Also you can't use the bible to prove the bible, that's bad logic.

Theorist: Oh yeah right... eh... but seriously. How about this... okay maybe I can sell you on only half stupid? That sound okay... does half stupid sound good?

Now watch, this is the point in the conversation where the responses of the scientist are filled in by the simple mind of the theorist:

Scientist: Well eh... maybe.

Theorist: How about this, say every simple life form was invented by God, then evolved from there?

Scientist: Okay so you want to piss off scientists by teaching children unscientific reasoning, you want to piss of religious people for only taking part of their theories and rejecting the rest, and if this theory is eventually taught in schools you will piss of politicians by mixing church and state.

Theorist: Yeah... like for serious.

Scientist: Well okay, I'm okay with half stupid!

[Kosmo]

Don' you people go to sunday schools there in america, get your crackpot wacky theories from there and leave the education system as it is.

The worst point in some of the politics played in US is that they fuck care what 90% of the rest of western world is doing, we are bringing European schooling methods and systems to Africa and Europe has largely standardised education system, if you go from country to country the schools teach almost the same things.

I have several times compared European Union to Soviet Union, they make alot of crazy rules and to somepoint are looking for their own interest, but they bring alot of good things. The States should be governed under the goverment of USA like European countries under EU, if Kansas wants to be different, then kick them from the union and let them try to survive like a fish on the dry land, kinda like what we are doing to Turkey right now. We ain't going to take them in to the Union because we know they have humanrights problems and the lack of religious freedom. They don't play by our rules they don't reap the benefits of the Union.

[DD]

Don' you people go to sunday schools there in america, get your crackpot wacky theories from there and leave the education system as it is.

Please don't refer to me and Americans like me as "you people." I don't like to associate myself with dumbasses or dumbasses who like to associate me with them.

The worst point in some of the politics played in US is that they fuck care what 90% of the rest of western world is doing, we are bringing European schooling methods and systems to Africa and Europe has largely standardised education system, if you go from country to country the schools teach almost the same things.

I'm thankful that most Americans have an independent view of thinking. That's what makes democracy work, or what little we have of it left.

I have several times compared European Union to Soviet Union, they make alot of crazy rules and to somepoint are looking for their own interest, but they bring alot of good things.

The soviet union justified it reasoning with the communist way of thinking, that is, forcefully distribute wealth for the good of the people. Not realizing this is a completely flawed way of thinking the union fell apart.

The difference between a selfish American is that is it open and honest. A communist is dishonest and hides it by using the word "people" or "we."

The States should be governed under the goverment of USA like European countries under EU, if Kansas wants to be different, then kick them from the union and let them try to survive like a fish on the dry land, kinda like what we are doing to Turkey right now.

No it should not. You may not understand this but a key point to the long standing structure of the USA is the "balance of power." This is done by dividing the goverment into different branches, executive (presidential), legislative (congress), and judiciary (jury). As well as the seperation of state power versus national power. This helps to balance voting so states like California/Texas don't run the entire country.

We could rework the system to just kick Kansas, but that would be stupid. That's why the United States goverment has been primarily the same for almost 230 years now. While government structures in Europe continue to rise and fall.

We ain't going to take them in to the Union because we know they have humanrights problems and the lack of religious freedom. They don't play by our rules they don't reap the benefits of the Union.

We ain't no fool, but we thinks you're dumb. It sucks that you, like most Europeans, are still stuck using words like "we" when most Americans like me can freely use the word I and feel no shame. I don't doubt it was unjustified excluding Turkey from the EU, but some how, I don't know, I'm just throwing this out there, I believe it's from ignoring rules and standards agreed upon ahead of time. In the case of Kansas, they did not violate any US government rules, but if we want to, we can still overturn the states decision by revising ammendents of the constitution which clarifys rules behind mixing church and state.

[Kosmo]

Don' you people go to sunday schools there in america, get your crackpot wacky theories from there and leave the education system as it is.

Please don't refer to me and Americans like me as "you people." I don't like to associate myself with dumbasses or dumbasses who like to associate me with them.

Or the dumbasses who don't get a joke?

The worst point in some of the politics played in US is that they fuck care what 90% of the rest of western world is doing, we are bringing European schooling methods and systems to Africa and Europe has largely standardised education system, if you go from country to country the schools teach almost the same things.

I'm thankful that most Americans have an independent view of thinking. That's what makes democracy work, or what little we have of it left.

Indipendent view of thinking is good, but when the indipendent view of thinking thwarts the success of a mass, then the indipendent view of thinking is just an act of indipendent stupidity.

I have several times compared European Union to Soviet Union, they make alot of crazy rules and to somepoint are looking for their own interest, but they bring alot of good things.

The soviet union justified it reasoning with the communist way of thinking, that is, forcefully distribute wealth for the good of the people. Not realizing this is a completely flawed way of thinking the union fell apart.

The difference between a selfish American is that is it open and honest. A communist is dishonest and hides it by using the word "people" or "we."

Correction to your obvious gap in knowledge, Soviet Union fell apart because the people who ran the country were all bunch of selfish assholes who didn't act like communists, or even socialists, but prime examples of selfish capitalists with a power of a country behind them, they were like bad CEOs using the company resources for stupid R&D.

No it should not. You may not understand this but a key point to the long standing structure of the USA is the "balance of power." This is done by dividing the goverment into different branches, executive (presidential), legislative (congress), and judiciary (jury). As well as the seperation of state power versus national power. This helps to balance voting so states like California/Texas don't run the entire country.

We could rework the system to just kick Kansas, but that would be stupid. That's why the United States goverment has been primarily the same for almost 230 years now. While government structures in Europe continue to rise and fall.

The same shit for 230 years and it surely shows, your goverment is still in the fucking trees, eating bananas and using a stick to dig for ants.

We ain't going to take them in to the Union because we know they have humanrights problems and the lack of religious freedom. They don't play by our rules they don't reap the benefits of the Union.

We ain't no fool, but we thinks you're dumb. It sucks that you, like most Europeans, are still stuck using words like "we" when most Americans like me can freely use the word I and feel no shame. I don't doubt it was unjustified excluding Turkey from the EU, but some how, I don't know, I'm just throwing this out there, I believe it's from ignoring rules and standards agreed upon ahead of time. In the case of Kansas, they did not violate any US government rules, but if we want to, we can still overturn the states decision by revising ammendents of the constitution which clarifys rules behind mixing church and state.

Europeans use the word "we" because WE search for common good, and not I to search for personal gain and wealth, which seems to be the biggest problem in the states, even in personal level. Remember "I" does not share but "we" gives.

Not givin Turkey an easy chance is "ignoring rules and standards agreed upon ahead of time." Wow, that is a load of bull.

But as always, you and I (or should I say we, it's easier than say 'you and I') are both entitled to our opinions. I respect yours, it really gave some insight to the way "you people" think.

[DD]

I would respond in detail explaining your idiocy but there is not point. I can already tell there is no convincing you.

Actually I can't resist.

Indipendent view of thinking is good, but when the indipendent view of thinking thwarts the success of a mass, then the indipendent view of thinking is just an act of indipendent stupidity.

Independent is spelt independent. You might have learned that if you were. You would be suprised how the thoughts of a single person will rule a crowd who is afraid to think independently justifying it as a mass. Nazi Germany. Also if English is not your first language I apologize.

Correction to your obvious gap in knowledge, Soviet Union fell apart because the people who ran the country were all bunch of selfish assholes who didn't act like communists, or even socialists, but prime examples of selfish capitalists with a power of a country behind them, they were like bad CEOs using the company resources for stupid R&D.

Yes they were selfish assholes, but pretended to be selfless. It's much easier to be selfish if you're morale and honest.

The same shit for 230 years and it surely shows, your goverment is still in the fucking trees, eating bananas and using a stick to dig for ants.

Yes, because having goverments that fall to the same mistakes that never last is much better.

Europeans use the word "we" because WE search for common good, and not I to search for personal gain and wealth, which seems to be the biggest problem in the states, even in personal level. Remember "I" does not share but "we" gives.

Remember that "common good" is very personal. It common to all want power and wealth, but I want it, by trying to share it forcefully you get a communist government. I don't want to share my wealth with shitty unmotivated people. What reasoning is it that demands I share my wealth with people who don't have it? I work hard for the money. It is mine and mine to claim, and fuck all who dare try to claim it.