Dumb Design vs Intelligent design

[GrayFox]

... electrons, protons and neutrons make up atoms that make up yadda yadda yadda and in the end, behold an apple.

Better?

Now you are correct. The properties of an atom are dependent on its electron configuration. Mere electrons don't really make up anything.

[mawibse]

but in trut it was formed by something else that was there, which by no means is nothing. Comprende? Or should I demonstrate it with two lifelike dolls?

Aahh so by "nothing" you actually mean "by no means nothing", next time start with the lifelike dolls demonstration, it would make more sense.

I'm sorry if I laugh loudly to you, but by your theory, if god really existed and he came to us and told us the absolut truth to everything, it couldn't possibly be true because we know about it?

My theory is that if god told you the absolute truth about everything, you wouldn’t be human anymore you’d be god.

And what god would tell you wouldn’t even remotely resemble anything you’d ever or any human ever had or would ever had dreamt of, little less rationally thought about.

Hmm ... makes sense, but Big Bird and Cookie Monster have also some theories about this, not that they matter since they are as insane as you are.

They are not even close.

I'm well aware of the saying "to be truely smart is not to know that you know everything, but is to know that you know nothing" or something googaa like that, but are YOU aware of the saying "don't look far for answers to questions asked near."

Yes, "don’t look far..“ seems like a very good saying when talking about the universe expanding and black holes....

Sometimes we have to take what we have and start from there, because at the beginning THAT was just an apple, then it was small particles that naked eye couldn't see and then it was a black hole in space. All which we tought to be absolute, but all opened a new door.

And according to you, until we discover the truth about black holes and then, holy cow, the explanation of everything was there!!

Well I don’t think so, it’s just another opened door revealing hundreds of closed ones.

Now you are correct. The properties of an atom are dependent on its electron configuration. Mere electrons don't really make up anything.

Well, I'll try to be correct and remember not to say "mere electrons" next time.

Oh dear, I've gone quote crazed again...

[Kosmo]

I'm sorry if I laugh loudly to you, but by your theory, if god really existed and he came to us and told us the absolut truth to everything, it couldn't possibly be true because we know about it?

My theory is that if god told you the absolute truth about everything, you wouldn’t be human anymore you’d be god.

And what god would tell you wouldn’t even remotely resemble anything you’d ever or any human ever had or would ever had dreamt of, little less rationally thought about.

Even when I respect people who are smarter than me, I wouldn't go so far as calling them gods, even with vast knowledge the thing that makes us humans remain, error, just plain simple humane error. And as far as my view of god goes, he'd be still all powerful and divine being. Something man is not even with his gained vast knowledge.

I'm well aware of the saying "to be truely smart is not to know that you know everything, but is to know that you know nothing" or something googaa like that, but are YOU aware of the saying "don't look far for answers to questions asked near."

Yes, "don’t look far..“ seems like a very good saying when talking about the universe expanding and black holes....

Sometimes we have to take what we have and start from there, because at the beginning THAT was just an apple, then it was small particles that naked eye couldn't see and then it was a black hole in space. All which we tought to be absolute, but all opened a new door.

And according to you, until we discover the truth about black holes and then, holy cow, the explanation of everything was there!!

Well I don’t think so, it’s just another opened door revealing hundreds of closed ones.

As an answer to both of these, I just have to say, that without studying that apple, we wouldn't haven't found those atoms and what not, and without studying space we wouldn't have found black holes. I'll admit that just by studying black holes we won't find out everything, but you'll have to understand that there is no such thing as absolute knowledge, anything we study gives us more questions than answers, and that is the way humans work. But studying black holes will get us closer to the answers about universe, and I believe that they will hole the key to even bigger questions that we don't even know yet.

[mawibse]

Well the absolute truth Kosmo is that your wrong, and that I agree with you a 100%.

[Kosmo]

I am a God.

[The Postman]

I'm sorry if I laugh loudly to you, but by your theory, if god really existed and he came to us and told us the absolut truth to everything, it couldn't possibly be true because we know about it?

My theory is that if god told you the absolute truth about everything, you wouldn’t be human anymore you’d be god.

And what god would tell you wouldn’t even remotely resemble anything you’d ever or any human ever had or would ever had dreamt of, little less rationally thought about.

Even when I respect people who are smarter than me, I wouldn't go so far as calling them gods, even with vast knowledge the thing that makes us humans remain, error, just plain simple humane error. And as far as my view of god goes, he'd be still all powerful and divine being. Something man is not even with his gained vast knowledge.

I'm well aware of the saying "to be truely smart is not to know that you know everything, but is to know that you know nothing" or something googaa like that, but are YOU aware of the saying "don't look far for answers to questions asked near."

Yes, "don’t look far..“ seems like a very good saying when talking about the universe expanding and black holes....

Sometimes we have to take what we have and start from there, because at the beginning THAT was just an apple, then it was small particles that naked eye couldn't see and then it was a black hole in space. All which we tought to be absolute, but all opened a new door.

And according to you, until we discover the truth about black holes and then, holy cow, the explanation of everything was there!!

Well I don’t think so, it’s just another opened door revealing hundreds of closed ones.

As an answer to both of these, I just have to say, that without studying that apple, we wouldn't haven't found those atoms and what not, and without studying space we wouldn't have found black holes. I'll admit that just by studying black holes we won't find out everything, but you'll have to understand that there is no such thing as absolute knowledge, anything we study gives us more questions than answers, and that is the way humans work. But studying black holes will get us closer to the answers about universe, and I believe that they will hole the key to even bigger questions that we don't even know yet.

Quick question Mawibse. Do you think that Intelligent Design has any place in the science classroom given that it is not scientific, what-so-ever?

[JynxDaddy]

While I think of myself as an Atheist.

My 'lack of faith' was tested the other day, when I started thinking about Life and where it came from.

srsly, where the hell??

Phase 1 : Planet formed, different elements get put there by asteroids and stuff.

Phase 2: ?

Phase 3: Plants grow.

[mawibse]

JynxDaddy for a more detailed description of phase 2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution

Though it didnt start with RNA as it says, but you have to wait a couple of years, I think, before they got that tricky bit more sorted out.

Quick question Mawibse. Do you think that Intelligent Design has any place in the science classroom given that it is not scientific, what-so-ever?

Sure, if they in church everytime they say something about man being made by god from dust on the ground with god breathing life into him by the nostrils also mentions the theory put forward by Darwin on how god instrumented mans creation, and that the bible is more of a spiritual guide and not to be taken litterally.

[RD]

Quick question Mawibse. Do you think that Intelligent Design has any place in the science classroom given that it is not scientific, what-so-ever?

I think ID should be dealt with by science and not religion, unless you love the narrow christian view on the theory.

Its just like teaching about UFOS in religion class. It should be investigated scientifically and not by ppl who think the stars are too far for a spaceshuttle..... so it must be impossible. Also i think youre confusing 'scientific' with 'proven'.

[Kosmo]

As RD said, there is actually more sides to the ID than just the more popular looney toon side that is just genesis explained with science. There are actually really neat tie-ins with several other unorthodox theories about life in space and with the endless universes and so on.

My favourite being the one that sounds more like a Star Trek episode than a valid theory, it says that space isn't actually endless, but when traveled far enough time starts to move and not space, thusly we enter in to another universe, kinda like time travel, there are infinite number (infinite because every action makes another "branch") of universes which all are in a hex like map, and timetravel just actually doesn't move you through time, but it moves you hundreds of billions of lightyears in space to another universe.

I like because it makes time travel possible and it explains more clearly the infinite space to a small human brain that can't comprehend something that is infinite.

[Pericolos0]

sounds like pseudoscience at its best

[mawibse]

I like because it makes time travel possible and it explains more clearly the infinite space to a small human brain that can't comprehend something that is infinite.

Pfft I do time travel all the time no big deal.... one second for each second.

space isn't actually endless, but when traveled far enough time starts to move and not space, thusly we enter in to another universe

Hehe, time must pass for space to move, and space not moving would be the same thing as if time stopped and the distance to another universe is not counted in lightyears, if it where it wouldnt be another universe.

[Kosmo]

space isn't actually endless, but when traveled far enough time starts to move and not space, thusly we enter in to another universe

Hehe, time must pass for space to move, and space not moving would be the same thing as if time stopped and the distance to another universe is not counted in lightyears, if it where it wouldnt be another universe.

Nah, you just didn't understand it, the theory is actually quite genious, it was in a Finnish science publication, I don't remember who were the original scientists who cooked up the whole theory. You shouldn't judge it by my description of it, after all, they are scientists and what I recall of you, you are not

And as I wouldn't count ID as something very scientific, there is no harm teaching it, or rather telling about it in high school or college, since many have been unaware of it.

[The Postman]

JynxDaddy for a more detailed description of phase 2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolution

Though it didnt start with RNA as it says, but you have to wait a couple of years, I think, before they got that tricky bit more sorted out.

Quick question Mawibse. Do you think that Intelligent Design has any place in the science classroom given that it is not scientific, what-so-ever?

Sure, if they in church everytime they say something about man being made by god from dust on the ground with god breathing life into him by the nostrils also mentions the theory put forward by Darwin on how god instrumented mans creation, and that the bible is more of a spiritual guide and not to be taken litterally.

All sarcasm aside though, do you seriously think it has a place in a science classroom?

[mawibse]

You shouldn't judge it by my description of it, after all, they are scientists and what I recall of you, you are not

Your description is all I have to judge it with, my fault since I'm no scientist no doubt. :roll:

All sarcasm aside though, do you seriously think it has a place in a science classroom?

Heck no, whats next algebra in history class?

If someone asks about it in science class refer to religion or philosophy class.