The random model thread!

[PogoP]

Been working on a little Command and Conquer mini project... Trying to practice my 3d skills by re-making some buildings and units from C&C. This is my first attempt at normal map baking. Lemme know if there are any glaringly obvious errors!

[PhilipK]

It looks like there are some strange stuff going on with the smoothing on some faces.

I assume you're using one smoothing group (or only soft edges (maya)) on the whole lowpoly? On stuff which is as hard edged as that building I'd instead use mostly hard edges in the lowpoly, only thing i wouldn't use that on is the satellite dish sides.

The problem occurs when you have things with very harsh angles and use soft edges/one smoothing group and bake from a normalmap which looks accurate, the normalmap will try to counteract the soft smoothing in the lowpoly by render it convex or concave. I see loads of people work this way and schools even teaching this way. I don't agree at all with working in that way. In my opinion the lowpoly should have good shading if you were to remove the normalmap ingame. True, you will have to split the UV seams on all hard edges to avoid ugly normal seams, thus lose some texture space, still I'd easily trade a couple of pixels for nice shading any day

Sorry for going on abit much with this... I'd like to see the lowpoly only tho and the uv-flat+highpoly separately.

Oh, btw it looks like you're pretty close to the original, nice

[PogoP]

It looks like there are some strange stuff going on with the smoothing on some faces.

I assume you're using one smoothing group (or only soft edges (maya)) on the whole lowpoly? On stuff which is as hard edged as that building I'd instead use mostly hard edges in the lowpoly, only thing i wouldn't use that on is the satellite dish sides.

The problem occurs when you have things with very harsh angles and use soft edges/one smoothing group and bake from a normalmap which looks accurate, the normalmap will try to counteract the soft smoothing in the lowpoly by render it convex or concave. I see loads of people work this way and schools even teaching this way. I don't agree at all with working in that way. In my opinion the lowpoly should have good shading if you were to remove the normalmap ingame. True, you will have to split the UV seams on all hard edges to avoid ugly normal seams, thus lose some texture space, still I'd easily trade a couple of pixels for nice shading any day

Sorry for going on abit much with this... I'd like to see the lowpoly only tho and the uv-flat+highpoly separately.

Oh, btw it looks like you're pretty close to the original, nice

Thanks Phil, I really appreciate your comment. I'm trying to improve my modelling skills and I've never attempted normal mapping before so I just jumped in at the deep end.

I'm going to make my own thread so as not to clutter up this one. Hopefully I'll see you in there! I'll post up some comparison shots.

[Minos]

It looks like there are some strange stuff going on with the smoothing on some faces.

I assume you're using one smoothing group (or only soft edges (maya)) on the whole lowpoly? On stuff which is as hard edged as that building I'd instead use mostly hard edges in the lowpoly, only thing i wouldn't use that on is the satellite dish sides.

The problem occurs when you have things with very harsh angles and use soft edges/one smoothing group and bake from a normalmap which looks accurate, the normalmap will try to counteract the soft smoothing in the lowpoly by render it convex or concave. I see loads of people work this way and schools even teaching this way. I don't agree at all with working in that way. In my opinion the lowpoly should have good shading if you were to remove the normalmap ingame. True, you will have to split the UV seams on all hard edges to avoid ugly normal seams, thus lose some texture space, still I'd easily trade a couple of pixels for nice shading any day

Sorry for going on abit much with this... I'd like to see the lowpoly only tho and the uv-flat+highpoly separately.

Oh, btw it looks like you're pretty close to the original, nice

Agreed. I never really understood the reason for setting all faces of the low poly mesh to SG 1. The normal map looks bad that way, with gradients all over.

[-HP-]

Depends on the object really, but yeah apart from very very rare occasions, I never use a single smoothing group for the WHOLE object.

Bottom line is, try to have as least smoothing groups as possible. Cos the shading comes from the normal map (high poly) not from the low poly, that's why some people just apply SG1 and let the normal map do the shading work. But this rarely works tbh!

[unless you're using object space normal mapping, but that's topic for another day]

It's a very complex topic, and highly disused on polycount, but like I said, try and keep the smoothing groups count very very low, so you can define some hard edges where you need to, (Like 90º angles) and let the normal map do the shading at the same time.

Also, chanfering 90º angle edges might work and it's preferable to chanfer an edge and have those 3 polys use a single smoothing group, than break that edge with two separate smoothing groups. Not only you'll get a ugly hard edge on the bake, but also you'll have a higher number of vertices. (Yes, many smoothing groups actually increase the vertex count)

[PhilipK]

":32vt0jtc]Depends on the object really, but yeah apart from very very rare occasions, I never use a single smoothing group for the WHOLE object.

Bottom line is, try to have as least smoothing groups as possible. Cos the shading comes from the normal map (high poly) not from the low poly, that's why some people just apply SG1 and let the normal map do the shading work. But this rarely works tbh!

[unless you're using object space normal mapping, but that's topic for another day]

It's a very complex topic, and highly disused on polycount, but like I said, try and keep the smoothing groups count very very low, so you can define some hard edges where you need to, (Like 90º angles) and let the normal map do the shading at the same time.

Also, chanfering 90º angle edges might work and it's preferable to chanfer an edge and have those 3 polys use a single smoothing group, than break that edge with two separate smoothing groups. Not only you'll get a ugly hard edge on the bake, but also you'll have a higher number of vertices. (Yes, many smoothing groups actually increase the vertex count)

Agreed, it's always a balancing act when to use hard edges and when not. Personally I actually tend to separate this by thinking if the object is organic in any way or not.

[Sindwiller]

Despite all the small issues, I <3 your idea and effort.

[nooba]

Nice ships, arhurt!

PogoP, love the original C&C, keep it up!

[Pericolos0]

awesome nooba!!!! What are they for?

[Grinwhrl]

Incredible work Nooba, That style is top notch.

[nooba]

Peris, thanks! They're for a game a mate and I are making!

Dark, cheers dude!

[Zeta]

I really love the texture style, great work nooba

[Jenn0_Bing]

Awesome stuff nooba, the only thing that bugs me is the gaps between the panels on the canon look too wide and too shallow. Makes it look carved in as opposed to a gap between two pieces, maybe just the inclusion of a thin darker line would help.

[PogoP]

They're awesome! Totally love the style. Entirely hand painted and no normal map? Top notch.

Been working more on my sumo sculpt for body modelling at uni. Got about 2 and a half weeks to finish this off, including texturing. Eeeek!

This is my first ever sculpt so be kind!

[D3ads]

Looking good! I'd keep the lack of mouth and make them into some freak Japanese horror entity