Bush: Schools Should Teach 'Intelligent Design'

[RD]

Well I actually think that IF taken account all the religious mumbo jumbo and evolution, the evolution is the truth. But I still consider it as a theory and I'm waiting for confirmation or newer theory.

But evolution is the complete truth proven by todays science and genesis is just a bollocks and there is absolutely no way the intelligent design can be true.

This is why intelligent design should be dealt with in school. U dont know anything about the theory, but you are 100% sure it cant be true? If kids dismiss the theory just cuz they want to, later on they can be brainwashed into believing it becuz they have no counter arguments.

It's not that either of them is rock solid, but intelligent design and it's loopholes and the fact that it is based on "I think human is so complex that it could not have happened by accident", and evolution with it's studies and fewer loopholes than what intelligent design has, I'm just betting my money on the evolution theory.

Evolution says we grew from tiny organisms to fish to apes etc (yes i know its a little more complicated). But evolution is a theory because theres no bones or fossils to prove such a transition, and knowing how slow evolution is, there should be many of them around the world. This is where intelligent design comes in and what ppl mean when they say were too complicated to have evolved from an amoebe. Ofcourse the bones and fossils are all waiting to be discovered somewhere underground, but untill then ppl can believe what they want, whether aliens planted semen on earth or something else designed us.

And what makes science go round is that everything considered to be a fact can be studied and tests can be repeated. Neither of these work on intelligent design, and thusly believing in intelligent design makes those who believe in it drooling idiots.

Read again what i wrote about being brainwashed in school. Evolution cant be tested and proven, its a theory. It would have been nice if u learned about this in school, becuz uve been told about 5 times already in this thread and still dont believe it.

[Kosmo]

So RD your main point being is that if you have not been taught something in school you can be later brainwashed to believe in it? Ok, I created earth and I am actually God, Jesus and Santa, I just take many forms and now I'm on the form of Ganesha typing this post, so how is that for a theory?

Look, it's not neccesary because I don't believe in intelligen design that I don't want it to be one of the crazy theories kids learn in school, it is mainly because I fail to see the need for a person to know about it. AND it is closely tied to christian view of the creation and has near to nil anything to do with other creation stories in other religions.

So do I want yet another fuckup of american schooling system to teach people to hate eachother and possibly cause even more grief in evolution vs. intelligent bedtimestories race between superiority of designed group of people? There is not even a close cut in that one.

[RD]

U cant even tell whats so crazy about intelligent design becuz u dont know anything about it. Ur not willing to read up on it becuz u believe u already know enough about it, and almost evrything uve said about it is completely false. I guess u just think of it as a christian fairytale where god created the earth 6000 years ago. Brainwashed :roll:

The theory of intelligent design (ID) holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection. ID is thus a scientific disagreement with the core claim of evolutionary theory that the apparent design of living systems is an illusion.

In a broader sense, Intelligent Design is simply the science of design detection -- how to recognize patterns arranged by an intelligent cause for a purpose. Design detection is used in a number of scientific fields, including anthropology, forensic sciences that seek to explain the cause of events such as a death or fire, cryptanalysis and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI). An inference that certain biological information may be the product of an intelligent cause can be tested or evaluated in the same manner as scientists daily test for design in other sciences.

ID is controversial because of the implications of its evidence, rather than the significant weight of its evidence. ID proponents believe science should be conducted objectively, without regard to the implications of its findings. This is particularly necessary in origins science because of its historical (and thus very subjective) nature, and because it is a science that unavoidably impacts religion.

Positive evidence of design in living systems consists of the semantic, meaningful or functional nature of biological information, the lack of any known law that can explain the sequence of symbols that carry the "messages," and statistical and experimental evidence that tends to rule out chance as a plausible explanation. Other evidence challenges the adequacy of natural or material causes to explain both the origin and diversity of life.

Intelligent Design is an intellectual movement that includes a scientific research program for investigating intelligent causes and that challenges naturalistic explanations of origins which currently drive science education and research.

[Kosmo]

U cant even tell whats so crazy about intelligent design becuz u dont know anything about it. Ur not willing to read up on it becuz u believe u already know enough about it, and almost evrything uve said about it is completely false. I guess u just think of it as a christian fairytale where god created the earth 6000 years ago. Brainwashed :roll:

Yes yes, I know all that propaganda bullshit you try, I have actually read alot of material considering 'ID' and infact it is nothing more than creationism just told differently and a mere sad try to fit genesis on a scientific context.

It is not a science thus it does not belong to science class since they only teach what are considered facts and theories. Nor does it belong to religion class because it actually isn't any religion either.

If you come up with a new class that will include all this New Age bullshit and spirit healing then go ahead take the class.

I just don't believe anything that conviniently has all the answers and is like some bizarre ultimate theory of everything and anything.

[Pericolos0]

the biggest mistake intelligent design proposers are making is that design and evolution are very similar, in the end design is an evolutionary porcess too. A computer is very complicated but it started out very simple too. Stuff that is good is kept and improved, stuff that is bad is removed. With the survival criteria being whatever we want in computers, speed, functionality etc.

In biological evolution random factors create positive and negative attributes to an organism, and natural selection sorts it out. It is a process very similar to design.

rd i want you to give me the 'flaws of evolution' that your dutch school system conspiracy has been helding behind. Also evolution can be tested, we can see its predictions happen in nature, we have observed speciation and done thorough tests with fast reproducing animals in labs to create new species (simulating a sped up version of natural selection). This theory is rock solid.

The problem i have with intelligent design is that there is really nothing to learn about except for pointing out 'flaws' in evolution theory. You have on the one side the easy 'theory' of god created complicated stuff, and the complicated theory of evolution. It takes several years to properly understand the workings of evolution and how to properly interpret the evidence, but the large majority of high school kids only get a few lessons of evolution in their biology class. It's easy to convince people of lies when they do not know much about the other side.

There really is no evolution/ID debate among 99.99% of biologists and other scientists, all the evidence points out to a solid theory with a plethora of predictions that can all be observed. Why should we let people that know shit about the theory decide what should be taught in school? The truth is not democratic in this case.

[RD]

rd i want you to give me the 'flaws of evolution' that your dutch school system conspiracy has been helding behind. Also evolution can be tested, we can see its predictions happen in nature, we have observed speciation and done thorough tests with fast reproducing animals in labs to create new species (simulating a sped up version of natural selection).

Two of the biggest weaknesses of evolutionary theory are:

-There is no adequate explanation for the origin of life from dead chemicals. Even the simplest life form is tremendously complex.

-The fossil record, our only documentation of whether evolution actually occurred in the past, lacks any transitional forms, and all types appear fully-formed when first present. The evidence that "pre-men" (ape-men) existed is dubious at best. So called pre-man fossils turn out to be those of apes, extinct apes, fully man, or historical frauds.

Basically the question is where do we come from, and ur only open for one answer, we come from an unguided natural process. U answer it before its asked, thats not what science is about. The theory has no explanation for the creation of life from dead chemicals. Dead chemicals evolve?

Its an assumption that natural processes explain all phenomena and that all design is an illusion. This is what evolution theory is about, not that we come from apes and that ID says otherwise.

Current origins science starts with a controversial assumption that life originates from a purely naturalistic process. The validity of the assumption is questionable because (1) science has not been able to provide a coherent theory as to how life could have arisen from a natural process and (2) because the weight of existing

evidence arguably favors an intelligent cause. It has been hypothesized that the first living organism would require DNA carrying a “message”

consisting of at least 300 genes. Messages, like DNA, have a semantic characteristic that is the hallmark of intelligence. No known law dictates the message carrying sequence of nucleotide bases along the sugar-phosphate backbone of the DNA and the assembly of the sequence of a single gene for the first cell prior to a replicating population would appear statistically impossible (see paragraph 7 and related notes).

This appearance of design coupled with the lack of any known natural process guided by a combination of chance and law arguably makes design the best current explanation for the origin of life.

This theory is rock solid.

A rocksolid theory :roll:

It seems even belgian schools have used brainwashing techniques to the flabbergasting point that u contradict urself!

[-Stratesiz-]

Two of the biggest weaknesses of evolutionary theory are:

-There is no adequate explanation for the origin of life from dead chemicals. Even the simplest life form is tremendously complex.

-The fossil record, our only documentation of whether evolution actually occurred in the past, lacks any transitional forms, and all types appear fully-formed when first present. The evidence that "pre-men" (ape-men) existed is dubious at best. So called pre-man fossils turn out to be those of apes, extinct apes, fully man, or historical frauds.

1. There have been successful tests to create the necessary building blocks for life out of nothing with just water, electricity and basic elements.

2. A considerable amount of species has been found showing the transitional forms between fish, lizards and birds, not to mention all the different evolutionary stages of man in a chronological order, and all the rudimentaries we have in our bodies that are a result of features that have become obsolete due to evolution, not to mention the similarities in our DNA. Also, the overall growth stages of all species tend to go through similar stages that are closely aligned with evolutionary progress.

[Pericolos0]

this is what i mean with ignorance making you more prone to lies

Two of the biggest weaknesses of evolutionary theory are:

-There is no adequate explanation for the origin of life from dead chemicals. Even the simplest life form is tremendously complex.

this is not even what evolution is about, evolution would be just as true if god created the first bacterium. The field of study that tries to explain this is abiogenesis and has alot of hyptheses that do not require a supernatural entity.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life

-The fossil record, our only documentation of whether evolution actually occurred in the past, lacks any transitional forms, and all types appear fully-formed when first present. The evidence that "pre-men" (ape-men) existed is dubious at best.

The human line of evolution is actually on of the better documented with alot of transitions fossils found

So called pre-man fossils turn out to be those of apes, extinct apes, fully man, or historical frauds.

this is simply a lie. There have been cases of fraud like the pilt down man for example, but guess what, all those have been exposed by scientists.

how are these not transitional? :

heres a nice list of the different hominids that have been discovered as of yet http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/species.html

Every creature is a transitional fossil. Please explain me why for example an archaeopterix or a microraptor cannot be viewed as a transitional species? How about creatures living today like the lungfish?

Basically the question is where do we come from, and ur only open for one answer, we come from an unguided natural process. U answer it before its asked, thats not what science is about.

What? I'm open for al ideas, but i wont believe them before they are well evidenced. I won't give a damn about god aslong as the evidence isnt there. That is what science is about, science is just a methodological proces to explain the phenomena we see in nature. Why should scientists care about god if there is no evidence?

The theory has no explanation for the creation of life from dead chemicals. Dead chemicals evolve?

yup all you need is a self-replicating molecule basically. Read up on the ideas behind abiogenesis.

Its an assumption that natural processes explain all phenomena and that all design is an illusion. This is what evolution theory is about, not that we come from apes and that ID says otherwise.

What? Evolution does not assume anything. Its just an explanation for what we observe in nature. Why should we throw in magical fairies, invisible gnomes or a supernatural deity if we have no evidence for them

A rocksolid theory :roll:

It seems even belgian schools have used brainwashing techniques to the flabbergasting point that u contradict urself!

I didn't say it was proven , but it reaches 100% certanity. It has not been falsified yet in 150 years. And the chances that it will be are pretty much non existant (unless we find dinosaurs and humans in thesame rock strata for example, but evolution predicts we wont, and we havn't!).

Its simple RD, humans have been trying to substitute "i don't know" with "goddidit" for thousands of years. The only thing i can conclude is that we are still doing this intellectual dishonesty, and you are doing thesame.

[-Stratesiz-]

/me pets peri~

The evolution theory is pretty much flawless today.

[Kosmo]

Yeah like I said, with ID watergoing through it's loopholes like from a ten foot hole, against pretty tight evolution theory, I'd still put my money on evolution over the ID.

Besides, if you really think that ID should be taught in schools because some people think that it is true or it has valuable meaning as basis for "compare" why won't you rally for 'racial characteristics/racial hygiene' class next, modern day medical studies have shown that there is no races between humans, but still some redneck hicks and racists believe in it and it creates a nice comparepoint and "atmosphere" in education system, so why the hell not. It is as stupid as all that ID shit for all I care.

[RD]

Ok Peris, now imagine evrything u wrote isnt dealt with in school. Good idea? :roll:

So anyway, u believe evolution says we evolved from apes? I guess ur school didnt even teach evolution theory right then

Scientists have been trying to explain for over a century that humans did not evolve from apes. Rather, humans and apes share an ancient, common ancestor.

[Pericolos0]

sigh rd i know that, why the hell did you mention pre-man fossils then. You obviously ment the common (ape-like) ancestor

[Kosmo]

Ok Peris, now imagine evrything u wrote isnt dealt with in school. Good idea? :roll:

So anyway, u believe evolution says we evolved from apes? I guess ur school didnt even teach evolution theory right then

Scientists have been trying to explain for over a century that humans did not evolve from apes. Rather, humans and apes share an ancient, common ancestor.

RD cut the crap, seriously, you are hanging from straws there, the ID is idiotic and nothing you or any of those ID zealoths can say is going to change that thing, AND even if it is idiotic there is nothing we can say to change the fact that people are still going to believe in that load of shit.

If there are people stupid enough to actually believe that electricity is deviced by god and woman is made out of Adams rib then I guess there are some retards to believe the ID. But still, even if I'd believed that batteries are powered by pixiedust and He-Man is real, they should not teach that in schools, ok?

Or are you so wrapped up on this that you have actually become the brainwashed one, can't you really not see why a fundamenta christians like Bush actually believe in the ID? It is a propaganda created by christian scientists to mock the intelligence of the masses by feeding them the same genesis theory but dressed in pretty words and scientific formulas.

[The Postman]

This is why intelligent design should be dealt with in school. U dont know anything about the theory, but you are 100% sure it cant be true? If kids dismiss the theory just cuz they want to, later on they can be brainwashed into believing it becuz they have no counter arguments.

Suprise suprise, RD is taking up the idiotic side of the argument.

What in the fucking fuck? No it shouldn't. It's not science and has no place in a science classroom. You can deal with it at your church already so go do so. Kids can already dismiss it if they want to. This is just Christianity trying to butt in on scientific learning again. It has no bearing on scientific method and has no place in that curriculum. It's religiously inspired pap that is just codeword for "Creationism." Then again, expecting a logical argument from someone who spells "because" as "becuz" is just asking too much.

Evolution says we grew from tiny organisms to fish to apes etc (yes i know its a little more complicated). But evolution is a theory because theres no bones or fossils to prove such a transition, and knowing how slow evolution is, there should be many of them around the world. This is where intelligent design comes in and what ppl mean when they say were too complicated to have evolved from an amoebe. Ofcourse the bones and fossils are all waiting to be discovered somewhere underground, but untill then ppl can believe what they want, whether aliens planted semen on earth or something else designed us.

Read again what i wrote about being brainwashed in school. Evolution cant be tested and proven, its a theory. It would have been nice if u learned about this in school, becuz uve been told about 5 times already in this thread and still dont believe it.

First of all you don't seem to understand what scientific theory means. Evolution is both a fact and a theory. In the same way gravity is both a fact and a theory and same with atomic theory. There is a mountain of evidence in favor of evolution, and that includes a very complete fossil record showing off various stages of changes over time.

Evolution can be tested and it has been proven. Where did you get this shit? Intelligent design, however, involves a Creator somewhere and thusly cannot be proven since we cannot test it. It is not science and has no place in a science classroom whatsoever.

Edit: I always find it deliciously ironic when a religious person prattles on about brainwashing. Crimany.

[The Postman]

So anyway, u believe evolution says we evolved from apes? I guess ur school didnt even teach evolution theory right then

Scientists have been trying to explain for over a century that humans did not evolve from apes. Rather, humans and apes share an ancient, common ancestor.

Seriously, where do you get this phenomenol bullshit? I demand sources. Also, while you're here, speak English. Cut the AOL speak out.