SIN2 to be released via Steam

[Algor]

things I miss:

- dynamic shadows

- self shadowing

- better dynamic lights

- no compiling / wysiwyg editor

- model scaling in editor

- parallax mapping

- better workflow when importing textures or models

- easier AI scripting (like UE3)

you know, I love HL2 and also source - that's why I'm mapping for it. But this engine is definitely not capable for next-gen.

I agree on all points. Pretty shitty for an editor to not have in-editor lighting preview.

Also Source has parallax mapping already...

[TomWithTheWeather]

IMO, engines are considered outdated when the developer stops working on them or supporting them. Features, such as HDR and parallax, are modular in such a way where they can be coded into nearly any existing engine's rendering pipeline, if the engine is fairly up-to-date with the latest DX9 standards.

Is Doom1's engine outdated? Certainly. Is Doom3, Source, or UE2 outdated? Nope. Some may look better than others, but that doesn't mean anyone of them can't be used to create great games.

And yes, comparing a realtime renderer to something like Brazil is retarted.

[ReNo]

An engine doesn't have to remain stagnant - its perfectly possible (and common) for them to be changed heavily for other games. Check the Quake 3 engine, which went through loads of changes and was used in dozens of games to different effect. Or the Unreal or even Unreal 2 engine for that matter. Hell even the original HL engine (Goldsource as they now seem to be calling it?) began life as the Quake engine). Source is no different; Half-Life 2 is, by no means, the "best" it will ever necessarily be, and as skdr said, HDR is a clear example of that.

I also seem to recall somebody at Valve said they were interested in adding lighting previews into VHE in some interview, but I might be mistaken. I not quite sure how it would be handled given the way source does lighting, but I guess perhaps it would be done for only selected lights with a short (few second) generation period to calculate some example lightmaps.

Oh and Sin 2 - awesome. The first game was flawed but I loved the feel of the weapons and the hit reactions on the enemies. You always knew when you hit them and it gave a satisfying result. I bought it on release as the shop didn't have HL in yet, and while it hardly lived up to HL, it wasn't as bad as many make out. I'm pretty happy to see more being done over Steam as well, which so far I've had a pleasant experience with.

[Kosmo]

And yes, comparing a realtime renderer to something like Brazil is retarted.

Well then I'm glad that I didn't compare them, I was just making an example how technology has been heavily going forward even at this time we think of being the age of new technology with shader effects, first releases of renderers like Povray and the Amiga whathisname are very very primitive when compared to even todays realtime renderers technology vise, I was just pointing out that tomorrows realtime renderers copy the technologies of todays rendering engines, all these normalmapping and HDR shit are old as a fucking rock in renderign engine world, but new and shiny in game engine world. Do you see my point?

People seem to forget that engines are made with clear boundaries set by graphic card manufacturers and OpenGL/DirectX developers, you could make engine with everything imaginable but it wouldn't be much of a joy to play something that takes 15minutes to render a frame, so they optimize and use the features put in graphics cards to help engines render frames faster. Every engine is out dated when a newer version of a graphics card comes out, it's just so simple, when looking something technology vise, but like Tom said, engines become outdated after the developer stop supporting it or developers stop using it.

[mike-0]

I think hl1 didnt become outdated until hl2 came around. the community carried hl1 so far, some of the mods were up to date with some of the games on new engines being released on shelves.

[Bluestrike]

The price of sin 2 is what worry's me the most.

A few years ago my favorite game magazine predicted online distribution would eliminate the middle man and games would be cheaper to afford when buying them straight from the developer.

But HL2 wasn't cheaper then the average game and if you see the pricing for a single sin 2 episode I say then can put their episode where the sun doesn't shine.

No singleplay is worth that mutch to me and its better spend on a good MMO (not wow )

Only problem with steam I have is the friends list what is pretty mutch down most of the time.

Hmm source outdated?

I think eatch engine has its strong and weak points.

Source can definatly use some inprovements and I was told there was a light preview comming *sometime* maybe with the HDR release?

Scaleble models would rock, in Sandbox you can make one rock look like 100 different ones just with rotating and scaling.

For texture workflow, once you get the hang of it it can go pretty fast,

only a resource reload option would be nice so you don't have to restart hammer to see a new texture.

I believe there are already vtf plugins for photoshop.

[ReNo]

There is a resource reload option, at least for textures. You can also use the "open source" button in the material browser to modify your custom VMT's, which is kinda handy.

[Bluestrike]

lol still learning something in hammer every day

[|FRITZ|]

I really dont care if Valve adds in RTL preview. I much rather have them implement prop scaling, or better terrain tools that also includes the blending methods and the decolayers of unrealed etc.

Then there would be no need to mess with that god forsaken detail.vspb

http://mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php ... &start=285

[KungFuSquirrel]

I think hl1 didnt become outdated until hl2 came around. the community carried hl1 so far, some of the mods were up to date with some of the games on new engines being released on shelves.

Well, perhaps from a gameplay or fun standard, but certainly not technologically. Hacky workarounds tacked over a dated engine can't really compare to properly implemented stuff within newer engines.

But yeah. Well played, Valve and Ritual. This is certainly a good direction to be taking things, and it kicks ass to see Valve starting to bring other developers into the mix. And to see a company (Ritual) able to do what they want to do without interference or denial from whoever would be controlling the funds otherwise.

[Kosmo]

I really like the idea of a game coming out and having new chapters every now and then, I'd love to see some games to do that through internet instead of releasing expansion pack year after the release of the original game.

But 20 dollars for a chapter, I don't know, it ofcourse depends on how long these chapters are and how much new content they offer.

It could be like a TV show, you pay monthly and developer release a new chapter or "episode" for you to play every week, or something like that. Like I said, possibilities are rather endless, we just have to make something more viable than Steam to do this, ofcourse I got nothing against Steam, I use it every day since I play alot of HL mods, but are you sure many developers would like to use something tied so closely to another game and company?

[Zacker]

It could be like a TV show, you pay monthly and developer release a new chapter or "episode" for you to play every week, or something like that.

The idea is good, but I doubt that any game dev can have a new area/chapter ready each week. That would also result in crunch time each and every day:D

[Kosmo]

It could be like a TV show, you pay monthly and developer release a new chapter or "episode" for you to play every week, or something like that.

The idea is good, but I doubt that any game dev can have a new area/chapter ready each week. That would also result in crunch time each and every day:D

Yeah well key to it is to do it like they do with TV shows and make enough chapters/episodes so you have time to work on the next bunch, they don't do tv shows the day before they show it on tv you know :wink:

And I was thinking more about them being like monthly "expansions" with every chapter unlocked every week, so it creates the continuity.