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It might be a good idea to focus the theme a bit. It seems focused on Americana, but a bit all over the place. I get that it's a Danger Zone map, but just because you have a big space to work with, doesn't mean it needs to hit 10 different themes at once.

I personally am fond of the suburban setting, and I think of the themes you highlighted it's the most apt for CS:GO and the best realized here. I think it would be smart to combine the police station, suburbia, church and sawmill while cleaning them all up a lot to match the suburban idyllic theme. Given that a lot of the Danger Zone levels seem to be artificial spaces, perhaps it would be a simulation of a suburban area, sort of a training ground. I don't think the haunted house really fits in logically, and I'm not so sure about the trailer park either (maybe that would be by the sawmill?).

Danger Zone levels seem to have quite focused themes (jungle, laboratory island, desert island), so I guess I'm just looking for something that binds these together in a simple, overarching way (military simulation/deserted area)

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Awesome start for the project, I can imagine how fun it must be to come up with locations and environmental narration, it's the closest one can get to single-player level design in CSGO.

Looking forward to see everything come together, the Far Cry 5 vibes are strong right away with the church and sawmill... unlike Shawn I'd rather see this go to the most hillibilly you can push it, although a suburban area would provide more tacticality and overall stronger gameplay -- just because would be more like the everyday CS is.

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9 hours ago, FMPONE said:

It might be a good idea to focus the theme a bit. It seems focused on Americana, but a bit all over the place. I get that it's a Danger Zone map, but just because you have a big space to work with, doesn't mean it needs to hit 10 different themes at once.

I personally am fond of the suburban setting, and I think of the themes you highlighted it's the most apt for CS:GO and the best realized here. I think it would be smart to combine the police station, suburbia, church and sawmill while cleaning them all up a lot to match the suburban idyllic theme. Given that a lot of the Danger Zone levels seem to be artificial spaces, perhaps it would be a simulation of a suburban area, sort of a training ground. I don't think the haunted house really fits in logically, and I'm not so sure about the trailer park either (maybe that would be by the sawmill?).

Danger Zone levels seem to have quite focused themes (jungle, laboratory island, desert island), so I guess I'm just looking for something that binds these together in a simple, overarching way (military simulation/deserted area)

I don't get this at all. It's just bunch of locations that will be scattered across the map tied with terrain. Of course they are out of context right now but you can clearly see where i'm going with it. I think a small rural city will fit perfectly in danger zone style map without feeling too cramped, artificial or random. I don't see Jungle having quite focused theme at all. Desert island is also a broad theme... And I think thats the characteristic of danger zone map. Map is huge and you can't go with a narrow theme like you would normally do with typical csgo map. You need to have smaller themes all around and tie them up with a story and settings of the map.

You can't imagine a trailerpark somewhere in a rural city of america? It really doesn't fit in the overall settings of the map?

8 hours ago, blackdog said:

Awesome start for the project, I can imagine how fun it must be to come up with locations and environmental narration, it's the closest one can get to single-player level design in CSGO.

Looking forward to see everything come together, the Far Cry 5 vibes are strong right away with the church and sawmill... unlike Shawn I'd rather see this go to the most hillibilly you can push it, although a suburban area would provide more tacticality and overall stronger gameplay -- just because would be more like the everyday CS is.

Thank You! This is the exact reason I wanted to do a danger zone map. Focus highly on visuals and environment story telling to give each locations a bit of a story. Even tho players probably won't notice it while playing in high risk situations their subconsciousness will pick subtle things up. I finished FC5 to get better feeling of the theme and atmosphere there and also gather references. But to be honest, every church in rural usa looks like this :D 

9 hours ago, Squad said:

Very cool, Lizard :)

Got a rough overview of what the entire area is looking/could look like?

Thanks!

We had full prototype of a terrain but I had to scrap it and take different approach. I will work on placement of the locations once all of them are done. So I will get back to you guys, probably in a a month with an overview.

Edited by Lizard

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4 hours ago, Lizard said:

I don't get this at all. It's just bunch of locations that will be scattered across the map tied with terrain. Of course they are out of context right now but you can clearly see where i'm going with it. I think a small rural city will fit perfectly in danger zone style map without feeling too cramped, artificial or random. I don't see Jungle having quite focused theme at all. Desert island is also a broad theme... And I think thats the characteristic of danger zone map. Map is huge and you can't go with a narrow theme like you would normally do with typical csgo map. You need to have smaller themes all around and tie them up with a story and settings of the map.

You can't imagine a trailerpark somewhere in a rural city of america? It really doesn't fit in the overall settings of the map?

Thank You! This is the exact reason I wanted to do a danger zone map. Focus highly on visuals and environment story telling to give each locations a bit of a story. Even tho players probably won't notice it while playing in high risk situations their subconsciousness will pick subtle things up. I finished FC5 to get better feeling of the theme and atmosphere there and also gather references. But to be honest, every church in rural usa looks like this :D 

Thanks!

We had full prototype of a terrain but I had to scrap it and take different approach. I will work on placement of the locations once all of them are done. So I will get back to you guys, probably in a a month with an overview.

Suburbs are pretty sprawling sometimes. 

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I get that this might be somewhat repetitive, but that’s where modularity + a subtle dash of an overarching theme (military simulation, post-apoc, cordoned off area) and one or two of your other ideas could work without throwing too much away. IMO the suburban home idea you presented seems really like the most compelling and the only one we haven’t seen explored in CSGO, so I would go deeper with that rather than cast a wide net. 

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If you felt really strongly about keeping all of this different stuff, I would pick a place in the US to focus on specifically. Just saying it’s set in a rural area in the US doesn’t do much to carve out a theme, because there are a lot of different flavors of rural in this country. Is it in the Deep South? The Pacific Northwest? The Midwest? They all have a very different feel. Maybe that would help tie everything together. But to me as it stands there isn’t anything glueing the areas together, and not all of it is equally interesting.

That’s why it seems important to either 1) go deeper on one concept that is truly generic in the US (suburb) or 2) tie it all together somehow by picking a specific region of the country to help focus the theme.

You're free to say “this is set somewhere in the US” but then I don’t think it will resonate with people as strongly as if you limit your research to one location, find reference, and dig deeply into it to bring lots of personality forward.

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59 minutes ago, FMPONE said:

If you felt really strongly about keeping all of this different stuff, I would pick a place in the US to focus on specifically. Just saying it’s set in a rural area in the US doesn’t do much to carve out a theme

I still don't think overall theme needs to be narrowed down to give players better feeling of the entire map. That is not what I think most of the battle royal maps are about. Sub-themes play a huge role in maps like this. What's the theme for Fortnite map? What's the theme for Warzone map? What's the theme for PUBG map? They are all 'just cities'. But when you go deeper there is whole different story. You say "Tilted towers" and every fortnite player will know what you are talking about. "TV station? Sure I see the guy on top of it." That is why you can't have two similar locations on one map and just giving them different name... Going really norrow on the theme for battle royal map even for csgo is not a good idea. I have a creek area with 6 houses next to each other and it's already getting repetitive having more of them will only decrease its value. With this being said you really need main locations to be unique even tho they might seem a little bit out of place or too much for this scale of the map.

 

59 minutes ago, FMPONE said:

You're free to say “this is set somewhere in the US” but then I don’t think it will resonate with people as strongly as if you limit your research to one location, find reference, and dig deeply into it to bring lots of personality forward.

Again. I don't see how pointing exact location on the map would help to bring personality forward. Everything is based on real life references taken from the USA. It's not like the barn style is taken from Sweeden. Police station looks like polish one and sawmill is straight out of asia. I think they are consistent with overall look of the usa architecture style. What's there left then?

Edited by Lizard

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Just about every good CSGO level does what I’m suggesting in terms of a tight theme (Vertigo, Train, Nuke) or a specific place on Earth (Inferno-Tuscany, Cobble-French Castle, Dust2-Moroccan Town, Anubis-Egyptian Temple, Overpass-Berlin Sewer)

so I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that it’s not important or that it’s a frivolous concept. The US is one of the largest countries on Earth, and it would be helpful in my opinion if you picked a specific area to focus on rather than the current scattershot approach. There is no “USA architectural style”, there are thousands of sub-cultures and sub-styles. I think a little research here would be helpful.

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19 minutes ago, FMPONE said:

Inferno-Tuscany, Cobble-French Castle, Dust2-Moroccan Town

Then County - Rural USA. You gave these examples but they fall into the same category and they don't prove anything. They are as broad as 'rural usa'.

19 minutes ago, FMPONE said:

so I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that it’s not important or that it’s a frivolous concept

I never said anything like this. I just feel that csgo level designers especially put too much weight on locating the maps in super narrow location. I bet no one knows where season is located other than "Japan". Same goes for Anubis = Egypt, Cobble = castle, Vertigo = skyscrapper, Dust = Marroco. Have you ever hear anyone describing the map like this "You know the map cobble? It's a private castle of some rich guy set in french"? I bet you did not. Players really don't care where the vertigo skyscrapper is located. It could be in Russia, USA, Brazil, Poland... As long as its unique compared to other maps and its easy to describe. This thing is exact same reason why Team - Fortress 2 maps are so hard to describe for someone who wants to recall one of them. Landfall? Fastlane? Freight? Dustbowl? Gravel pit?. But when you say Egypt, 2fort, Turbine, DeGroot you already have a picture of a map so distinct from other that its a lot easier to recall them.

Edited by Lizard

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With all due respect, taking feedback is a skill. Read what the person has said a few times, think about it, and thank them for their feedback. It just seems pointless to argue about this stuff in this manner, no one is forcing you to do anything. It’s food for thought.

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10 minutes ago, FMPONE said:

With all due respect, taking feedback is a skill. Read what the person has said a few times, think about it, and thank them for their feedback. It just seems pointless to argue about this stuff in this manner

Giving a feedback is also a skill. As well as having a valuable conversation. When someone does not agree with your opinion you can talk about it and present few arguments. But I see you take everything personal and calling it 'an argue'. Super glad that Administrator on mapcore - a game dev forum can't have valuable conversation and he would rather 'spit and leave' his feedback without backing it up or talk about it. "Reading what the person has said a few times, think about it, and thanking them for their feedback" is not a very skillful way to handle feedback btw :) 

Edited by Lizard

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Sorry but you do seem argumentative. I wrote a lot of stuff and I think I was sincerely trying to be constructive and also express my opinion about what I was seeing. The missing link here is that you can not convince people they’re wrong when it comes to their own opinions, that’s a waste of time and not what the feedback process is about. 

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Just now, FMPONE said:

Sorry but you do seem argumentative. I wrote a lot of stuff and I think I was sincerely trying to be constructive and also express my opinion about what I was seeing. The missing link here is that you can not convince people they’re wrong, that’s a waste of time and not what the feedback process is about. 

Sorry Shawn but I can tell you the same the other way around. That you are also argumentative about it because I explained why going ton the theme doesn't makes sense for me in the scope of danger zone map and you were the one trying to convince me I should... 

Thats what having a valuable conversation is all about for me and You were the one to call it an argue. To this point there was nothing personal about it for me. Just two LD's sharing opinions on the subject. But if you see it this way then ok... 

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7 minutes ago, Lizard said:

Sorry Shawn but I can tell you the same the other way around. That you are also argumentative about it because I explained why going ton the theme doesn't makes sense for me in the scope of danger zone map and you were the one trying to convince me I should... 

Thats what having a valuable conversation is all about for me and You were the one to call it an argue. To this point there was nothing personal about it for me. Just two LD's sharing opinions on the subject. But if you see it this way then ok... 

My experience has been that when someone says something about my level that I don’t agree with, I either have to admit they’re right a few months later, or it ends up being totally wrong and it’s not something I ever think about again. I don’t usually say much about it to that person though, because I find it’s best to keep the door pretty wide open to their feedback. The reason? so that if they made a few stupid points this time, next time they’ll maybe say something smarter. So that’s what I was getting at with “argument”. After our discussion, I still feel the same way I did about County at the beginning :)

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4 minutes ago, FMPONE said:

The reason? so that if they made a few stupid points this time, next time they’ll maybe say something smarter. So that’s what I was getting at with “argument”

And I would rather talk about it because maybe the person giving the feedback will come to the conclusion that he didn't know about something before giving the feedback and next time he will take this experience into consideration. It's like going to the playtests and saying that the door should be THIS wide just because. And maybe at some point someone will talk about the reasons why the doors on his map are in this size.  And the guy will go "ohh I didn't think of that". Its more about taking feedback and giving something in exchange rather than taking everything for yourself and saying "thank you".

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