My First CSGO Map de_Bronx W.I.P

[sius]

Hi,
I started to create my first map and I want to share it with you. 
The T-spawn and the a-bombsite are currently under construction. 
I started to create the map completely and provided all areas with placeholders. 
I plan to work from area to area.

Here is the link to my map:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2073821965

Take a look and tell me what can be improved.
All buildings are still under construction. Please test the way to the A-Spot and tell me what you think of it.

Map Setting: Bronx

[sius]

Update 30.04

-added Diner 

[Kokopelli]

Looks pretty cool so far. It already feels like a place, which is awesome for a greybox (or orange box ). Also love the baseketball court bombsite. Will check it out when I have time.

[sius]

Update: 03.05.20

-added building Ct / Aspot

-added kiosk

 

[RedSkittleFox]

If those aren't models, make sure to convert them to models or you will run into vertex limit which is around 65 000 (2^16).

Edited May 3, 2020 by RedSkittleFox

[sius]

 

Thanks for your warning! I already have embellishments and a lot of other parts converted into func details. Is it correct that way?

[RedSkittleFox]

1 hour ago, sius said:

 

Thanks for your warning! I already have embellishments and a lot of other parts converted into func details. Is it correct that way?

That is not gonna prevent you from running into the issue I've mentioned before. But yes, all the ornaments and non blocking geometry should be func_detail. The reason for that is that source engine uses binary space partitioning as an occulusion culling method. It needs to generate the series of rooms and all the ornaments would create too much splits thus make ur vis-leaf graph very complex.

Here is the link to a good video talking about binary space partitioning if you are interested, it's more from a programmers point of view but still very interesting. 

 

The reason why the vertex count for all the brushes on the map is 65k is that all vertices get put into one big vertex buffer. To later draw it you use index buffers. Source engine uses 16bit integers for that, so the maximal number of vertices you can have in your vertex buffer is 2^16.

Edit: Each model is loaded into separate vertex buffer (sometimes can be combined to minimize gpu calls), so you can have more than 2^16 in your sceen at the time.

Edited May 3, 2020 by RedSkittleFox

[Freaky_Banana]

Agreed with above. Also,  had a quick run-around on the map. I like that new building facade you made! About the layout design:

What type of gamemode is this map intended for? Do you want to make a competitive map (5v5), a Casual map (10v10), a "horde" map (20v20) or just something that you think is pretty? In any case, I left some of my first thoughts below. 

Some areas are very dark. light entities of any kind will help.

The entire map was VERY vast. Especially around the bombsite and in the middle around the diner this felt the most extreme to me. Long angles can be cool, but most of the time they should be limited. It's not always fun to play and will likely cause some issues later on. Many of your areas were very inter-connected as well. Maybe you want to define more specific pathes.

Additionally sometimes the existing pathes were confusing to me. It is hard to tell in this map what is accessible and what isn't. Mostly I was sad I couldn't play in that awesome area with the steps and trees, because that seemed like a lot of fun, but it can also be very confusing for players if they don't immediately know where an enemy can come from!

This was reinforced by the fact that some angles are really unexpected and weird, like these below. You want to try and streamline your pathes in such a way that the next point of engagement that a player will face is a) obvious and b) clearly visible.

Overall I really like the tree area and the new facade that you have detailed! I like the theme and think that the Bronx could be a very interesting location for a cool CSGO map.

Also a tl;dr for your func_detail question above: Func_details have their own limit, called T-junctions (65,535). For all general optimization questions (which at your stage I would only worry about at an extremely fundamental level), you should probably check out @will2k's articles. They're great, especially if you (like me) have no clue what's going on with optimization.

Keep going.

[sius]

3 hours ago, RedSkittleFox said:

That is not gonna prevent you from running into the issue I've mentioned before. But yes, all the ornaments and non blocking geometry should be func_detail. The reason for that is that source engine uses binary space partitioning as an occulusion culling method. It needs to generate the series of rooms and all the ornaments would create too much splits thus make ur vis-leaf graph very complex.

Here is the link to a good video talking about binary space partitioning if you are interested, it's more from a programmers point of view but still very interesting. 

 

The reason why the vertex count for all the brushes on the map is 65k is that all vertices get put into one big vertex buffer. To later draw it you use index buffers. Source engine uses 16bit integers for that, so the maximal number of vertices you can have in your vertex buffer is 2^16.

Edit: Each model is loaded into separate vertex buffer (sometimes can be combined to minimize gpu calls), so you can have more than 2^16 in your sceen at the time.

 

Okay, now I understand what you mean. I will implement it in the map. Thanks

[sius]

20 hours ago, Freaky_Banana said:

Agreed with above. Also,  had a quick run-around on the map. I like that new building facade you made! About the layout design:

What type of gamemode is this map intended for? Do you want to make a competitive map (5v5), a Casual map (10v10), a "horde" map (20v20) or just something that you think is pretty? In any case, I left some of my first thoughts below. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Some areas are very dark. light entities of any kind will help.

The entire map was VERY vast. Especially around the bombsite and in the middle around the diner this felt the most extreme to me. Long angles can be cool, but most of the time they should be limited. It's not always fun to play and will likely cause some issues later on. Many of your areas were very inter-connected as well. Maybe you want to define more specific pathes.

Additionally sometimes the existing pathes were confusing to me. It is hard to tell in this map what is accessible and what isn't. Mostly I was sad I couldn't play in that awesome area with the steps and trees, because that seemed like a lot of fun, but it can also be very confusing for players if they don't immediately know where an enemy can come from!

This was reinforced by the fact that some angles are really unexpected and weird, like these below. You want to try and streamline your pathes in such a way that the next point of engagement that a player will face is a) obvious and b) clearly visible.

 

Overall I really like the tree area and the new facade that you have detailed! I like the theme and think that the Bronx could be a very interesting location for a cool CSGO map.

Also a tl;dr for your func_detail question above: Func_details have their own limit, called T-junctions (65,535). For all general optimization questions (which at your stage I would only worry about at an extremely fundamental level), you should probably check out @will2k's articles. They're great, especially if you (like me) have no clue what's going on with optimization.

Keep going.

 

 

Thank you for taking a closer look at the map.

to your first question: 
I plan to create a competitive map 5V5

to point two: 
I will add light sources for the areas.

to point three:
I personally felt that the map was rather too small than too large. Of course, that can also be deceptive. 
I will consider how I can better define the areas.

to point 4:
 I agree with you. the steps with the trees can be confusing. 
I wanted to limit the map in this area, but I also didn't want the beauty of the map to suffer. A small fence should help.

to point 5:
check point 3.

Last point:
I'll take a look at the guides, thanks for the links. I will continue to work on the map and report as soon as
I have further progress to report.

thank you

Edited May 4, 2020 by sius

[sius]

Update 17.05.2020

 

 

Hello, here is a new map update. I've made some changes.
Most of the update is dedicated to the factory and the b-spot. 
Decorations on the factory are still missing and will follow in the next update.

Have fun

-added factory with B bombsite (factory details follow)

-added building (mid)

-added minimap

-added A and B waypoints

-added light sources

 

-changed t way to b

-changed apartment (delete stairs and balcony)