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[CS:GO] Exotic Places Contest TOP 4 WINNERS


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5 hours ago, fewseb said:

You have to remember the pro scene threw a fit when they added vertigo into the pro pool, A map which at the time was constantly being updated based on feedback and still had 7 months before the next major. Pros are the same type who look at community maps and think they are all about looks with no thought into layout or grenade throws. Id like it if another community map could earn a permanent spot in the game like Agency or Cache, but I dont think well see a new community map ever end up in the pro pool.

Vertigo's always been known for being a very casual map, hasn't it?

I played Anubis yesterday and it was the map with the shortest queue time. I read some of the feedback people were giving on Reddit and I have to wonder, have the CS community ever agreed on a community map being *competitively viable*? There's always some areas that *feel* right and some that *feel* wrong. The map's always either too big or too small. It's almost like CS is such a diverse game that everyone judges the maps from the perspective of their own unique playstyle 🤔.

I also think that this new way Valve have been introducing maps for the past 2 or so years, unlike in Operations, predisposes players to treat them like they could stay in forever. There's no such thing as, "here's the deadline, here's when things go back to normal". I doubt most players care whether a map is made by Valve or not, as long as it plays well. So in my eyes it just comes down to whether Valve would want a community map to represent their game in tournaments. It would no doubt spice up the viewing experience if a gorgeous new map like Anubis replaced a generic construction site.

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Mapcore is proud to present the Top 4 Grand Finalists of our Counter-Strike: Global Offensive Mapping Contest for original 5v5 bomb defusal maps AND hostage-rescue maps, powered by FACEIT! Each T

I think the time has come, Tyrinni is banned for constantly flooding threads with long, boring, pedantic arguments. May this be a second celebratory moment for our community.

Grats to all winners! Quality stuff (compared to this thread).

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I think the whole system of adding/removing (community) maps should be changed and most importantly be more transparent.

1. In my opinion more maps should get a chance of getting played and payed. The original Operations were a good thing.

2. Originally Valve wanted to (or at least they said it) keep popular community maps in the game and change the map pool according to popularity. One of the first maps treated like this was my Austria map. So it stayed in for a while and had pretty good queue times (most of the time shorter than Cobble, Nuke, Train and often even Overpass). But then they switched to "2 in, 2 out" mode. Some maps like Abbey seemed to be pretty popular but just got removed after 4 months or so. If players know that a map will be removed after such a short time, they will not want to learn it and keep playing Mirage or whatever.

3. Valve should give more feedback to the mappers what's going on. How many players do actually play a map? Which game modes are played? Balancing? At least to me they didn't give any information except some balancing stats. Maybe they gave more information to the others guys. But we won't get to know this because most people here don't share any knowledge anymore and just post their shiny screenshots to get some likes. 🤔

4. There should be a more transparent and consistent system of adding/removing maps. Maybe something like this based on popularity:

x <- -> Casual only (or Operation) <- ->(Scrimmage only for a short time <- ->) Scrimmage and Comp <- -> Active duty

5. Why are maps in Scrimmage mode OR Comp? Why not both? Scrimmage is good to learn a map without destroying your rating. But most people won't play more than 1-5 matches like this. I think pretty much all maps should be in Scrimmage game mode. Or if this increases queue time too much, there could be maybe 2 regular maps + another one that changes every month or so (atm Mirage)

6. What about Wingman game mode? I actually like this a lot. But most maps are just terrible and/or imbalanced. Would be nice to see some community maps there.

Edited by Radix
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10 hours ago, fewseb said:

Its why the que times for chlorine and anubis maps that have been in for just 1 week have already gone to 5 minutes.

I never seen a community map with >4 minute queue time. Either you got in game after server outage or you got connected to some weird server cluster.

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3 hours ago, NikiOo said:

The map's always either too big or too small.

Exactly you need to shove it down their throat overpass style. They'll get it eventually...

However, whether you like it or not, graphics are integral to a map's success.

2 hours ago, Radix said:

But most maps are just terrible and/or imbalanced. Would be nice to see some community maps there.

YES. Like something where you plant the bomb at least half the time with balanced teams. What even is the current map pool LOL

Edited by Interfearance
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18 hours ago, blackdog said:

Man I don't Reddit, but apart from one Wingman contest last year, I don't remember hearing of any other contest for CSGO mappers.

Exactly. Only thing I've been saying is that it's not valve's fault they select maps someone might not like, valve just follows the only mapping competition religiously.

I would rather have valve would ask the community for map suggestions directly via some rank-based voting system, but I digress. If you wish there would be more maps the community likes like Junction, try to change who will judge the next mapping competition because that's the only influence you can have on the matter.

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9 hours ago, Interfearance said:

Insurgency. Yes a while ago, but I still play regularly in full servers. Also damn good maps.

IIRC bohemia interactive had a huge modding contest too, giving out like half a milly

It is easy (and also correct) to chalk up valve as being lazy.

Man I said major developer, no disrespect to NWI -we have members of the team in here as well- but they are a small indie. Insurgency’s player average is below 2K, CSGO is over 700K 🙄
 

I’m talking about your Call of Duty, EA with BF or Apex Legends… goddamn Quake has still a following only thanks to the community that kept Q3 alive, and Champions offers nothing for us. With the failure of the UT remake there are no big straightforward DM games we can practice our mapping skills, and DM is the base for multi-player games.

Ubisoft is one of the very few that even offers any editor for their game, but I haven’t heard of any event to sponsor community created content. It’s amazing they even have an editor in these times, cos for really big hits I can only think of Dying Light, and that’s not competitive afaik.

Laziness: who knows, maybe… imo that’s disrespectful for those who are maintaining the game –which btw has had so many updates throughout 2018-2019– who knows how much the Valve flat model is still valid, but with teams of potentially varying size it’s hard to commit to big projects, unless they get buy-in from the big bosses… take into account that they were focused on VR and HL Alyx (which oh, immediately became the VR killer app!) and keeping Steam ahead of the competition (even more features added to the ecosystem in the last year). And we are not even accounting for DOTA (which is much bigger business than CSGO!). They are also busy dealing with TOs in the ever-shifting landscape of eSports, which was pretty much shaped by CS in the first place, if you haven’t noticed they changed formula for the Majors and have to keep the TOs at bay to prevent a total entrenchment into franchising.

 

3 hours ago, Passerby97 said:

Exactly. Only thing I've been saying is that it's not valve's fault they select maps someone might not like, valve just follows the only mapping competition religiously.

Well who’s “fault“ is it? Is not like the Mapcore admins have any say in what the CSGO team does. I don’t understand the hostility or at least hostile tones for something that is actually good for the community.

I mean a system with frequent rotation of the official map pool was advocated by @FMPONE and Volcano ages ago.

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2 hours ago, blackdog said:

Well who’s “fault“ is it? Is not like the Mapcore admins have any say in what the CSGO team does. I don’t understand the hostility or at least hostile tones for something that is actually good for the community.

I am not trying to be hostile. I am again, just saying that mapcore competitions mostly what decide maps in the game.
So, again. If you dislike what maps get into the game the fault should be directed at the judges of those competitions, not the people at valve, who trust those judges and follow their decisions.
It's not Valve's fault the most efficient way to get high quality maps is by following mapcore and it's competitions. Mapcore has an indirect communication channel to Valve. There should be nothing hostile about that.
  

2 hours ago, blackdog said:

I mean a system with frequent rotation of the official map pool was advocated by @FMPONE and Volcano ages ago.

Map rotations really hurt competitive aspect of the game, however. It's not like the size or the texture of the soccer field changes for pro players based on season. It's always same size, always on grass. Forcing the players to value relearning the playfield over improving in the game will really hurt the competitive nature of any game.

If you want nothing but more pure map diversity in the game without affecting game balance or length of matches, we could just be playing each map in pro scene only up to halftime, playing 5 maps, winner being first to 40 round wins. That would actually lower the length of each match from the usual 3 hours of playtime when going to the last 3rd map to more manageable 2.5 hours when in the last fifth map.
No actual part of the balance of the game or maps changes. You just play one side on each map. Of course, some maps might be heavily favored towards either team. Because of that, the team who didn't pick the map picks the side they play the map on. That would mean badly balanced maps would rarely get picked and it would be obvious which maps should be removed from the game. Cons would include no more knife rounds so I get why it won't happen.
 

Edited by Passerby97
Fixed weird sentence structure
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4 hours ago, blackdog said:

imo that’s disrespectful for those who are maintaining the game

the few, the proud

 

4 hours ago, blackdog said:

Call of Duty, EA with BF or Apex Legends

I think this is unfair because all of those games need a dedicated team to produce a map that is up to par. Also COD has a minute pc community. A lot of games with small levels or managably sized levels have some degree of modding

Also with billions in revenue, I don't think a few big projects are keeping valve from fixing up their cash cow properly. Laziness of valve not their employees.

Edited by Interfearance
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I see this type of mapping contests as a way of making your level designer and artist skills recognized. And of course a big plus to your CV especially if you want to enter the gaming industry. The fact the one's map is selected for a while în the game, it is just a side effect.

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On 4/12/2020 at 3:22 PM, Radix said:

If players know that a map will be removed after such a short time, they will not want to learn it and keep playing Mirage or whatever.

That was my original concern with the Operations model. Good point!

I do agree with the popularity idea, but here's lies the transparency issue. Players need to know that this map is being trialed out and could potentially move up to Active Duty.

The way Valve does things with the map pool reminds me of how I make maps, with zero transparency. I design a layout, I test it, I put aside the feedback, then I take the tings I like and start from scratch. And then when the next playtest comes along and people be like, what happened to this map? I can't recognize it? It was fine before, I just say, ahem, this is how it is now. I like it better.

On 4/13/2020 at 2:20 AM, Passerby97 said:

It's not Valve's fault the most efficient way to get high quality maps is by following mapcore and it's competitions.

That's like saying it's not my fault for watching a Captain Crunch commercial and deciding it's the best breakfast for me.

Maybe if they had a long term plan about these gorgeous community maps (like seeing them on the big screen, cause that's what I want), then it wouldn't seem like they're so lazy about curating them.

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On 4/13/2020 at 12:20 AM, Passerby97 said:

I am not trying to be hostile. I am again, just saying that mapcore competitions mostly what decide maps in the game.
So, again. If you dislike what maps get into the game the fault should be directed at the judges of those competitions, not the people at valve, who trust those judges and follow their decisions.
It's not Valve's fault the most efficient way to get high quality maps is by following mapcore and it's competitions. Mapcore has an indirect communication channel to Valve. There should be nothing hostile about that.
 

Hey it's simple: Valve makes the game, Valve decides what content goes in it.
It is totally "their fault" if a map you don't like ends in the official rotation. I wouldn't put it in those terms though because:

  1. nowhere says they should support community content
  2. they have picked maps straight from the workshop before
  3. Valve-made maps are not necessarily welcomed either

Criticise the judges all you want if you don't like the winning maps, but you can't place any responsibility on them regarding what ends up in the game, as per above. The tournament prize doesn't comprise a slot in the official map rotation: no developer in their right of mind would ever promise that (nobody wants crap content in their game).

Oh you also said this previously:

Quote

Sadly only few hand-picked judges in this third-party website decide what maps get the fabled top spot. This means nobody but them control what maps get accepted to the game. Effectively nobody else in the playerbase has any power to even slightly influence what maps get accepted to the game.

and it occurred to me that Warowl takes credit for the removal of Cobble from the map rotation. So you don't need a competition to affect the map rotation, because the only thing that Valve cares to judge this sort of thing is --like Google-- numbers. The community votes by playing, rating, downloading.

I won't reply on the competitive stuff because it would be a long game design discussion that goes way off topic, plus we have professionals here that can pick it apart better than me for sure.

 

On 4/13/2020 at 2:31 AM, Interfearance said:

I think this is unfair because all of those games need a dedicated team to produce a map that is up to par. Also COD has a minute pc community. A lot of games with small levels or managably sized levels have some degree of modding

Also with billions in revenue, I don't think a few big projects are keeping valve from fixing up their cash cow properly. Laziness of valve not their employees.

A team is not a requirement but a production choice: you have multiple people working because it's faster and you want the map done in three months instead of one year. You are well aware there are entire games made by one person. By the way most of the maps in the contest were made by at least two people.

Dunno why you think people wouldn't manage creating AAA content, you maybe haven't seen the stuff produced for the Unreal contest that was run a few years back, or the Crysis stuff that people have in their portfolios. Many of the designers here are professionals that work or have worked on the aforementioned titles...

What are the major games that allow modding you are thinking of?
There was actually a topic opened recently and I don't remember anything big being brought up.

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1 hour ago, blackdog said:

What are the major games that allow modding you are thinking of?

Off the top of my head, all the fallouts, the armas, and halos till 4. Also a lot of games allow modding but I would get flamed because you need a separate client and it can be involved. Such an example would even be bo1, the worst cod for modding. Bo3 and bo2 had tons of custom maps for zombies. I used to watch so many videos of that.
 

To get to your point about creating the same quality maps in a matter of time, I don't really think this is possible. Its not just about manual labor. The concepts and ideas behind these maps come usually come from a seasoned team. If one guy can match the concept art/ideas (subjective duh), the layout quality, and the technical execution (scripts, effects, etc), we would have some AAA indie games indeed. Not to say some cry engine stuff isn't impressive, but having used the engine myself, it is not really the same thing as making a map from scratch. You have access to so many of the assets off the bat, and 99% of maps I have seen are in a jungle setting which entails prop distribution and terrain creation, along with a few outstanding structures, usually warehouses. Maybe I am wrong about crysis maps, send me pics. 

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3 hours ago, blackdog said:

Criticise the judges all you want if you don't like the winning maps, but you can't place any responsibility on them regarding what ends up in the game


You haven't really showed me that you disagree with me on my view that top Mapcore has been deciding maps for many years now, so I am not really sure what else outside to appeal to ignorance can be used to defend their judges from being at fault for what maps get accepted.

I think you're misunderstanding something here as well. I replied to Interfearance's comments about which maps are being accepted to the game. I don't really care what maps get accepted into the game myself. I just play on community servers anyways.

I also fail to understand what Warowl, one of the judges on the latest competition, getting a map removed from the game by rallying his followers is meant to prove.
 

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