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11 hours ago, ┌HP┘ said:

What's bonkers? The fact that tech nerds with bad posture up in Palo alto are dictating what doctors and scientists worldwide can or can't say? Just another day on the interwebs... not bonkers at all.

…and we might say they live in a bubble now. They’re building a town for their employees, imagine then how’s gonna be. People completely detached from reality telling you have a bad perspective on things.

Because after all “they’re a private company they can do what they want” 🙄

Edited by blackdog
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We're slowly becoming a god dammed cyberpunk irl.

Anyone here ever read Brave New World? People love to say we're at the cusp of becoming an Orwellian society, but tbh from what I'm seeing Huxley was closer. 

(Curious fact, he was Orwell's teacher.)

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8 hours ago, ┌HP┘ said:

We're slowly becoming a god dammed cyberpunk irl.

Anyone here ever read Brave New World? People love to say we're at the cusp of becoming an Orwellian society, but tbh from what I'm seeing Huxley was closer. 

(Curious fact, he was Orwell's teacher.)

Brave New World has a strong understanding of technology, the human id, colonialism, and the biological.

For instance, the importance of biotech, which Corona reminded us all of recently, given that it’s pretty clear they cooked it up in a lab just like the characters at the beginning of that book. Dividing society along arbitrary identity lines as a useful political tactic to obfuscate power, is another theme Brave New World explores in a way that 1984 does not. Overall though, I think it’s a bit flighty, drug-obsessed and not as grounded as 1984, which has a total focus on language (yours, mine, ours, theirs) as the most potent weapon wielded by the powerful against the weak (i.e. propaganda) and the importance of surveillance, marketing, and manufacturing consent.

While drugs are prevalent today, I don’t think it’s true that power/capital/governments want their people sedated and drifting through their days in narcotic bliss. If anything, there seems to be a psychotic and oppressive obsession with people being “on” and “engaged” constantly, prisoners to their anger and hatred. Less tantric sex, more raging at your television/phone.

Prescient as Huxley was on a variety of subjects, that’s a decidedly 1984 vibe for me. The image of the angry, self-righteous face screaming at you on your giant television screen, while simultaneously watching you in your home and listening to your every word… that’s 1984 and it’s the world today.

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On 7/8/2021 at 9:26 PM, ┌HP┘ said:

Anyone here ever read Brave New World? People love to say we're at the cusp of becoming an Orwellian society, but tbh from what I'm seeing Huxley was closer. 

(Curious fact, he was Orwell's teacher.)

Gave up not too far in, I think. [ me saying some dumb shit ]

Never really looked into the publishing dates before, but I guess it pairs well with Orwell's work as a contrast for pre- and post- ww2 visions of a dystopia. Guess I should give it another try, then. Probably not gonna try Atlas Shrugged again though because holy shit it's long and in the entire first 8 hours ( audiobook ) I swear only like 3 things happened

Edited by ThunderKeil
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16 hours ago, ┌HP┘ said:

We're slowly becoming a god dammed cyberpunk irl.

Anyone here ever read Brave New World? People love to say we're at the cusp of becoming an Orwellian society, but tbh from what I'm seeing Huxley was closer. 

(Curious fact, he was Orwell's teacher.)

One of those that’s been in my list to read and still haven’t got round because have too many books piled up.

I’ve been gobbling up Colony, the TV show, that has several elements of what we’ve seen with COVID.

~

The interesting thing with these pillars of narrative is that the oppression is always very “conscious”, as in a handful of people really driving a certain objective, whilst what we see is more of a product of a hive mind, different influences. Is not like China were you can tell for sure a few people are driving a very specific policy.

(btw a few days ago in China they banned people from putting fingers up their noses [on camera/social only?])

Edited by blackdog
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Well, I listened to Brave New World . . . I'm honestly unsure why I disliked it quite as strongly the first time, guess I was just in a bad mood. But I maintain I don't enjoy it as much as a story in the same way I did most of the various similar publications.

As for parallels to current goings-on, I suppose I can see what you mean, but the concept of a manufactured populace - as a core principle of the narrative - doesn't really add up for me.

Spoiler

What are the motivations of the presumed central power? In 1984 - at least best I recall - the population is being exploited for the benefit of the ruling class, but in this . . . the supposed upper class is just another layer of the machine. The narrative seems to be, roughly, that in order for industry to be able to perform optimally, it must produce continually and in large quantities. This is true, but to what end does the industry serve in this hypothetical? Clearly an army of unquestioning clones and/or brainwashed slaves ( or the closest approximation thereof, since I guess they didn't yet know about cloning in 1932 ) is at whomever stands at the top's disposal, so why waste resources creating frivolous products for the clone-slaves to consume?

Is human happiness a good in and of itself, and does the central power serve the sole purpose of creating it? Is it like an algorithmic hypothetical, where a goal was set, but the execution of attaining this goal was perverted over time until noone outside the system remained to watch over it, leaving the system to run on its own like a headless chicken?

Am I failing to grasp the real central message? - Does human life lose its intrinsic value when it is entirely without agency? Does cloning diminish it? Does living without strife? Does substance abuse?

Also it's frankly unclear to me exactly what political system this would even be meant to critique - since by all accounts it seems to boil down to a hyperconsumerist. . socialist system? Like I've allured to before, the overwhelming sense I'm getting is that the society is just so far gone that it no longer knows why it does what it does, and it's just perpetuating itself because that's the objective it's been tasked with

At any rate, I think I've mentioned it before, but I'd say Fahrenheit 451 hits on some current affairs nicely without trailing off quite as much into the fantastical end as some of the others

@┌HP┘

Edited by ThunderKeil
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