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4 hours ago, dux said:

Looking forward to seeing the mental health fallout explosion from this.

Yeah man, years from now Covid will feel like a tiny thing compared to what this shit is doing to people's mental health.

I think we all know people that are getting hit pretty hard by this, specially the ones who spend their days watching the news and scrolling the socials.

One good thing it did for me, is to underline the importance of family (immediate or not), being away from them during this past year and a half was pretty painful to me, my sister had a little girl, she's now 18 months and I haven't seen her yet aside from video chat.
Before all this, my career always came first, I'm living the dream making games, hanging around with nerds that are way smarter than I am, living in new countries, what's not to like... But I dunno man, guess as you grow older you change specially when there's a catalyst like a fucking worldwide pandemic. Could be I'm just in serious need of a long vacation, as I'm sure we all are. ahah

 

 

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4 hours ago, dux said:

They should of kept the gyms open, the specific rules for some things were just daft. And I love the British news headlines "Soon you can hug again!" Oh fuck off.

Looking forward to seeing the mental health fallout explosion from this.

Really sorry to hear about the situation, it’s something we have lost perspective, being all stuck by ourselves.

And for the rest, yes, agree… I know it’s not much comfort but here we haven’t got it too bad, just thinking of the American craze, swinging between total disregard of any safety or Karens. Or in Italy, where the lockdown has been much stricter than here, fucking actual roadblocks and “papers please” requests if you headed out; vans with speakers driving by playing nonstop “stay inside”; police fining you hundreds for being outside for leisure despite you were alone for miles (except the police officer coming to get you). Some people were saying the army should be in the streets, bringing rations to the plebs… I mean what the fuck, people had completely lost it.

speaking of gyms I just read today they are reopening but you have to put the mask on between each exercise, plus BYO mat and other shit.

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6 hours ago, dux said:

Got a needle stuck in my arm and booted back out the door all in 15 minutes. Like Tisky said, my arm hurts like someone punched me with all their might.

I'm not expecting anything to go back to what you guys consider normal for quite a while. 

Majority of my friends are pretty fucked up now. Two of them are now full blown agoraphobic and are both on heavy ass medication just to function. My 3rd friend is in therapy and my 4th friend is self medicating with the special herb and I don't feel too amazing but I haven't needed to resort to therapy or meds. They should of kept the gyms open, the specific rules for some things were just daft. And I love the British news headlines "Soon you can hug again!" Oh fuck off.

Looking forward to seeing the mental health fallout explosion from this.

1000% the gyms should have been considered "essential" or whatever bullshit language they used to keep certain business open.

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Got the vaccine last thursday, no side effects at all. Shoulder felt like I got stung for a day, that was it.

Pretty scary to see many people having serious complications mere hours after vaccines had been administered.

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21 hours ago, blackdog said:

Pretty scary to see many people having serious complications mere hours after vaccines had been administered.

What people? What vaccine? What complications? I think most people have pretty minor side effects, and the ones with more severe ones usually go away within a few days (not counting the few VITT cases from the AZ vaccine)

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2 hours ago, kleinluka said:

What people? What vaccine? What complications? I think most people have pretty minor side effects, and the ones with more severe ones usually go away within a few days (not counting the few VITT cases from the AZ vaccine)

All those dying within hours because of thrombosis and similar, just the other day someone famous in India vaccinated on live tv just to die a few hours later.

Granted is not that many in the grand scheme of things, but it’s still a shitty way to go, also no consolation for those families.

Those that keep posting around that “oh the chances are so small” suffer from the same (but inverse) psychological mechanism of those that don’t want to vaccinate because the chances of getting really sick (at young age) are small.

Edited by blackdog
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16 hours ago, blackdog said:

Those that keep posting around that “oh the chances are so small” suffer from the same (but inverse) psychological mechanism of those that don’t want to vaccinate because the chances of getting really sick (at young age) are small.

It does suck, but at the end of the day you can only play off the odds that you know. Do you want to roll a D-1-million on getting a bad case of coof, or a D-5-million on getting a bad side effect from the vaccine? ( numbers not representative of real odds ) I'd personally still argue rolling the die with the virus isn't exactly a choice, as much as a natural cause of events that could have been averted.

With that said, it's like the Monty Hall problem - even if people consciously know that swapping on the second turn improves their odds, they might hesitate because if they end up losing, it'll feel like they had the prize in their hands and threw it away. It's not rational, but that's what it feels like. I think that's what getting a bad side effect from the vaccine must be like - you chose the obvious option to improve your odds, but if it backfires, it feels like a choice you made has backfired. You can argue the same applies for not getting the vaccine, but I don't think it's quite the same. People have been thrust into the pandemic at no choice of their own, so it's a die that's rolled for you, more so than you're rolling it yourself.

That aside, we probably could have gotten past all that 9 months ago if journalism wasn't dead so you know that's a shame

Edited by ThunderKeil
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all I’m saying is that is easy to find comfort in statistics when you are not part of it or on the good side of it. I wouldn’t expect even the most pro-vaccine to take it “oh well it was 1-in-5-millions chance” if a family member had a reaction to the vaccine.

In regard to your die rolling example @ThunderKeil, I think people can accept the inevitable much better than a mistake of their own, an infection probably feels like the former, while having a needle stuck in you the latter, because having an injection is much more intimate and “real” than inhaling something and must trigger a mind much differently. (I don’t think it’s a coincidence that many more people are afraid of needles more than germaphobes and similar) 

Edited by blackdog
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I bet that is HP's car!

Feels like things are slowly turning back to normal, restrictions are loosening up here in Sweden. Also, Euro 2021 is due next week!! Wohoo! ( go go Sweden! ) 

Edited by Tisky
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I have not taken the vaccine yet but people around me did and have not experienced any real negative side effects. Sore arm for a couple and then just being weak/sleepy for few days at most for the rest.

I think the bad vaccine outcome overlaps with other underlying health issues people taking it already have (people i know range from 20 to 75 in age but in generally good health). 

Edited by Buddy
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On 6/1/2021 at 1:46 PM, blackdog said:

All those dying within hours because of thrombosis and similar, just the other day someone famous in India vaccinated on live tv just to die a few hours later.

Granted is not that many in the grand scheme of things, but it’s still a shitty way to go, also no consolation for those families.

Those that keep posting around that “oh the chances are so small” suffer from the same (but inverse) psychological mechanism of those that don’t want to vaccinate because the chances of getting really sick (at young age) are small.

The thrombosis cases are exclusively an Astra Zeneca (with some similar J&J reports) problem. No such issue exists with mRNA vaccines. When you look at how many people have had this thrombosis after taking AZ vs. how many people got sick and died from covid the choice is pretty clear in terms of what is safer. Everybody needs to make that choice for themselves  in the end.

Also, in a lot of countries AZ seems to have been suspended already or restricted to certain age groups where VITT cases are less likely (such as older people). For example in Canada we no longer administer AZ for 1st doses, but we do let people get their 2nd shot with it because the thrombosis happens exclusively with 1st shots.
Everybody else is getting either Moderna or Pfizer, where there is no real risk at all to taking the vaccine.

Bottom line is, yes - it's unfortunate that people have died from thrombosis after taking Astra Zeneca. But we absolutely rely on vaccines to get back to normal, it's the only way. They clearly work in cutting down ICU and hospitalization numbers.

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4 hours ago, Buddy said:

I think the bad vaccine outcome overlaps with other underlying health issues people taking it already have (people i know range from 20 to 75 in age but in generally good health). 

37 minutes ago, kleinluka said:

The thrombosis cases are exclusively an Astra Zeneca (with some similar J&J reports) problem. No such issue exists with mRNA vaccines. When you look at how many people have had this thrombosis after taking AZ vs. how many people got sick and died from covid the choice is pretty clear in terms of what is safer. Everybody needs to make that choice for themselves  in the end.

This is bs, and exactly what I was talking about.

Easy to think like that when you are not the victim.

If there are chances of conditions that would stack up and combine for a deadly outcome, well seems pretty clear that we should do some tests and analysis on the people before getting vaccines. But what you read is that “we can’t undermine the vaccine campaign”, basically who cares if some people die, as long as we can go back to drink our mojitos earlier.

This doesn’t give any confidence that even autopsies/investigations will be carried out properly, it doesn’t give the confidence that we want to find out as much as possible from these unlucky cases to minimise any loss even further. I mean the reading material they give here in UK literally says “to be read carefully before getting vaccinated” is handed out after the shot.

We are basically raising our hands and saying “this is good enough” and it’s a disgusting thought process. Medical practitioners have sworn a vote to save lives, so even one is always too much.

And by the way I’ve read of 3 people dead in the last week, aged between 42-62, and all died between one hour to a couple days after the Pfizer. So is not just one of the vaccines that can cause complications.

But actually the case that has made me think and write all of this is another case of an Italian soldier that was covid-asymptomatic and the immune system overreacted when getting the shot. Well if this stuff can happen seems like you should actually test people before vaccinating to minimise further the chances, not just ask them if they have any symptoms. (By the way with how some people are properly freaked out by the virus I feel some wouldn’t be sincere just because they are so keen in getting vaccinated).

Also, to pick up something that was said earlier, is not really a choice to be vaccinated at this time, because of all the possible restrictions being pushed for non-vaccinated, because of the peer pressure (I’ve heard friends talk about “dumpable offense” to turn down the vaccine - as if automatically not wanting to get this shot makes you a no-vaxer that is against all the wonders medicine has done in a few decades 🙄).

Edited by blackdog
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Just to be clear, I don't down play the risks it's just that the odds are pretty low for a bad outcome. It would definitely suck to get really sick by trying to avoid the sickness, though.

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@blackdogIf you really think we can develop a vaccine that NOBODY will die from you’re gonna have a bad time. And this isn’t throwing in the towel and saying “I guess this is good enough”. There are scientists working right now to figure out what’s triggering the thrombosis response in the AZ vaccine in order to make it even safer. But the number will never be 0, there are simply way too many people with allergies, countless combinations of existing medical conditions that can interact with a vaccine. It’s simply not gonna happen.

You may ask “how is this any different to the same argument being made against covid? Well, the vaccine doesn’t have the ability to spread for one thing. There is no exponential growth of death like with the virus. In fact, even if the vaccine had the ability to be passed from person to person you would still end up saving more people than harming them.

Small amounts of people dying from taking medication isn’t something new. One of my friends has severe allergies and can’t get vaccinated at all. On a more personal note, my mom is in recovery from cancer, and would have been pretty much guaranteed to die if she had caught Covid due to this and other issues with her health. The vaccine quite literally is extending her life expectancy.

I would argue the great majority of medications in existence have a certain number of deaths associated with them. The Polio vaccine killed and paralyzed a bunch of children in the 50s, should we have stopped administering that too? No, because you have to weigh the risks and benefits of a medication vs continuing down the unvaccinated path that results in far greater amount of death. That is what’s being done with the Covid vaccine, and while the risk is not 0 it’s also many many many times lower than the risk of a society that continues to spread and get infected with the virus. This isn’t about wanting to get back to drinking mojitos, it’s about wanting to get back to a functioning society that can live a normal life without overwhelming the medical system, something that has happened and is happening without the vaccine. The healthcare system has shown significant improvement after large portions of population were vaccinated. 

So you want me to be shocked that 3 people out of hundreds of millions have died from the Pfizer vaccine? How many people’s deaths were PREVENTED because of this vaccine? Thousands. Hundreds of thousands. 
I never said it wasn’t terrible for those who died this way. Yes, every vaccine death is horrible and yes  it is in fact easy for me to make this argument when it’s not my family member or friend dying from it, but this is simple math in terms of risk vs benefit.

Every death associated with this pandemic is a tragedy. However if I need to choose between 3 people dieing from a vaccine or 30,000 people dieing because there is no vaccine, I’m sorry for those 3 and their families but I’d like to keep those 30,000 alive please.

The incidence rate of vaccine related deaths, while still arguably higher than we all want it to be, is still small enough that it wouldn’t even make it on a pill bottle under “extremely rare side effects”. 

To put it differently, if you wanted to take these vaccines off the market because they are, as you apparently suggest, unsafe, then for every person that you “save” from dying from the vaccine you kill a hundred more because you took those vaccines off the market. 

 

 

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