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Hey long time Mapcorians...I come back here regularly to read...much less regularly to post.  I think now warrants a post: 1) I have several people in my circle who have had this.  (a) My long ti

She's doing better thanks. First couple of days didn't know which way it was gonna go but it settled into mild symptoms which is basically the worst case of flu you'll ever get. To say I was stressed

I took some pictures here in Lyon when I went to buy some stuff...it's really really a strange thing to live with and in the same time it feels good. You can hear birds and no cars, you breathe...yeah

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Speaking of vaccine, I am not following the news enough so it came at a surprise when I saw the below info graphic.

It’s normal to have multiple shots of a vaccine, but I just didn’t think of that, despite having done multiple shots with the child last year 😅 I wonder if it applies to all vaccines that are coming out

Considering how long it takes to get full immunity, I wonder if there’s gonna be a lockdown parallel to the most intense rollout of vaccine, just to ensure you don’t get infected just after getting the shot (and basically wasting the dose + money)… read a few days ago a nurse in Spain got infected two days after the shot.

1ED41E63-B191-4EAF-B513-20847BE29D3D.jpeg.2573d11efcad2bf6ee8d5f07a1ed30dd.jpeg

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@kleinluka what you are saying, at first glance, sounds beautiful. But think about it. You are saying that people who take a vaccine are pro humanity, good people, and the people who refuse it, should rightly be banned from society.  It's hard to imagine what kind of repercussions such a segregation would cause. It could potentially do much more damage to the social fabric, than a portion of the population getting sick with covid.

Meanwhile, London and California are reporting 3x the daily amount of cases that they were reporting before the lockdowns. Looking exclusively at the data, there's a chance that the lockdowns are actually making the situation worse in those places, with nowhere to congregate, people end up congregating at home, where most of the infections are happening. But that is not something any politician would ever admit if indeed is the case. It's easier to simplify the problem and find scapegoats, than it is to accept a difficult reality.

The truth is, no one knows what the fuck is happening, and no one knows how to solve this problem. It seems that the more they try to solve it, the worse it gets. Just like the spanish flu pandemic passed, this one shall pass too, we just need to be careful and patient, and not freak out in the interim :P

 

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17 hours ago, Minos said:

@kleinluka what you are saying, at first glance, sounds beautiful. But think about it. You are saying that people who take a vaccine are pro humanity, good people, and the people who refuse it, should rightly be banned from society.  It's hard to imagine what kind of repercussions such a segregation would cause. It could potentially do much more damage to the social fabric, than a portion of the population getting sick with covid.

Why should others have to pay the (sometimes ultimate) price for people who choose to ignore the advice of every health agency on the planet? Fuck yes, I would want to be kept separate from people who pose a risk to me and my family.

The two main vaccines currently have an efficacy of 90+ %, there will be others rolling out shortly where this protection is only in the realm of 70%

I think many of these things will largely depend on whether it can be determined that the vaccines prevent transmission, which as of right now I think we still need more data to say for sure.

If the vaccines don't stop transmission, then herd immunity through vaccine becomes far-fetched and at that point it really doesn't make a difference to me if you get vaccinated or not.

However, the unvaccinated portion of the population would still be an unjust burden on the medical system by continuing to fill up ICUs and hospitals. Here in Ontario they are now pausing cancer surgeries because our ICUs are packed full of covid patients. I'm sorry but if you don't vaccinate because you just don't want to but then need to be hospitalized and meanwhile my mom gets her cancer surgery delayed and risks death because of your choice...you see why I would have a problem with this? If you actually had a legit reason not to get vaccinated, like a medical condition, that's a totally different thing and anyone would understand. But if you don't get vaccinated because of some unfounded rumour about vaccine safety, something that is not based on legitimate data or scientific fact, then yes, it should be you who pays the price for that choice and not my mom, or somebody else's mom.

The vaccine has now been given to millions of people across the world and there have been, to my knowledge, reports of less than 10 severe reactions, most of which were treated within an hour and the patient released home. There is no scientific evidence the vaccine poses a risk in the long-term and no reason to think that it would.

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7 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

I think we should split mapcore in 2, the vaccine guys take the main forum,

 

HP, Minos and me take EOT.

Not every day you see someone openly admit they want to be in an echo chamber :D

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18 hours ago, Minos said:

@kleinluka what you are saying, at first glance, sounds beautiful. But think about it. You are saying that people who take a vaccine are pro humanity, good people, and the people who refuse it, should rightly be banned from society.  It's hard to imagine what kind of repercussions such a segregation would cause. It could potentially do much more damage to the social fabric, than a portion of the population getting sick with covid.

Meanwhile, London and California are reporting 3x the daily amount of cases that they were reporting before the lockdowns. Looking exclusively at the data, there's a chance that the lockdowns are actually making the situation worse in those places, with nowhere to congregate, people end up congregating at home, where most of the infections are happening. But that is not something any politician would ever admit if indeed is the case. It's easier to simplify the problem and find scapegoats, than it is to accept a difficult reality.

The truth is, no one knows what the fuck is happening, and no one knows how to solve this problem. It seems that the more they try to solve it, the worse it gets. Just like the spanish flu pandemic passed, this one shall pass too, we just need to be careful and patient, and not freak out in the interim :P

 

In the Government, just like in giant Corporations, undoing of any kind is almost impossible. They will keep at it as nobody wants the accountability.

That is also why certain changes only happen after a whole generation of people dies (diet habits for example, no senior ranked scientist will ever want to admit that their body of work was built based on a wrong assumption.)

EDIT: I am not taking the vaccine, I've had COVID back in November.

Edited by Buddy
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3 hours ago, kleinluka said:

Why should others have to pay the (sometimes ultimate) price for people who choose to ignore the advice of every health agency on the planet? Fuck yes, I would want to be kept separate from people who pose a risk to me and my family.

The two main vaccines currently have an efficacy of 90+ %, there will be others rolling out shortly where this protection is only in the realm of 70%

I think many of these things will largely depend on whether it can be determined that the vaccines prevent transmission, which as of right now I think we still need more data to say for sure.

If the vaccines don't stop transmission, then herd immunity through vaccine becomes far-fetched and at that point it really doesn't make a difference to me if you get vaccinated or not.

However, the unvaccinated portion of the population would still be an unjust burden on the medical system by continuing to fill up ICUs and hospitals. Here in Ontario they are now pausing cancer surgeries because our ICUs are packed full of covid patients. I'm sorry but if you don't vaccinate because you just don't want to but then need to be hospitalized and meanwhile my mom gets her cancer surgery delayed and risks death because of your choice...you see why I would have a problem with this? If you actually had a legit reason not to get vaccinated, like a medical condition, that's a totally different thing and anyone would understand. But if you don't get vaccinated because of some unfounded rumour about vaccine safety, something that is not based on legitimate data or scientific fact, then yes, it should be you who pays the price for that choice and not my mom, or somebody else's mom.

The vaccine has now been given to millions of people across the world and there have been, to my knowledge, reports of less than 10 severe reactions, most of which were treated within an hour and the patient released home. There is no scientific evidence the vaccine poses a risk in the long-term and no reason to think that it would.

Hey man, I'm sorry to hear about your mother. I lost a dear girlfriend to cancer, and my stepdad to covid, so I can imagine your pain. It's not easy. I merely said that enforcing this, like you are suggesting, will potentially create more damage than some other more nuanced approach (like for example giving people enough time to quell doubts about its long term effects). If we are to emerge better from this, we need to stand together, instead of breaking apart or giving in to fear. Humanity survived the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, and many other horrible diseases, and it will survive this too. Btw, pandemics last about 3 years historically, and with talks that the South African variant could negate some of the vaccine, maybe prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

These are unstable times, and as the riots in LA showed, when shit hits the fan, no authority will save us. I watched places I know getting sacked on live television with the authorities completely unable to do anything. Many places around me were boarded up, while the police force was mobilized to protect the local malls. It felt very eerie to be outside, and made me realize first hand how security is just an illusion.

Anyway, hang in there bro, stay chill, healthy, and be strong for your girlfriend and your family. They need you to be on top of your game right now ❤️ 

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1 hour ago, Minos said:

Hey man, I'm sorry to hear about your mother. I lost a dear girlfriend to cancer, and my stepdad to covid, so I can imagine your pain. It's not easy. I merely said that enforcing this, like you are suggesting, will potentially create more damage than some other more nuanced approach (like for example giving people enough time to quell doubts about its long term effects). If we are to emerge better from this, we need to stand together, instead of breaking apart or giving in to fear. Humanity survived the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, and many other horrible diseases, and it will survive this too. Btw, pandemics last about 3 years historically, and with talks that the South African variant could negate some of the vaccine, maybe prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

These are unstable times, and as the riots in LA showed, when shit hits the fan, no authority will save us. I watched places I know getting sacked on live television with the authorities completely unable to do anything. Many places around me were boarded up, while the police force was mobilized to protect the local malls. It felt very eerie to be outside, and made me realize first hand how security is just an illusion.

Anyway, hang in there bro, stay chill, healthy, and be strong for your girlfriend and your family. They need you to be on top of your game right now ❤️ 

Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, my mother's cancer surgery was last year. She survived it (so far), cancer is gone (so far)... but many others are not as lucky and are having their surgeries postponed due to ICUs being full with covid patients. I'm really sorry about your girlfriend and your stepdad :(

Anyway, I've made my point about how I feel about things moving forward. Everyone needs to make their own decision. My only hope is that people think of the consequences and how they affect others and not just themselves.

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@Minos just wanted to comment on the passage regarding humanity surviving this… yes of course it will, we are way too many on this planet to disappear for a fortified flu.

The issue is that nobody wants to go. Nobody wants to be part of the statistics, especially not because you are out of luck and the last ICU was given to someone else.

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16 hours ago, blackdog said:

@Minos just wanted to comment on the passage regarding humanity surviving this… yes of course it will, we are way too many on this planet to disappear for a fortified flu.

The issue is that nobody wants to go. Nobody wants to be part of the statistics, especially not because you are out of luck and the last ICU was given to someone else.

Agreed, that is why increase your odds by staying healthy. Loose weight, sort out your sleep and don't think about Covid :)

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3 hours ago, kleinluka said:

FYI that does not mean you are now immune. You can get re-infected if you have already had covid.

From the CDC:

59A88230-9203-4FB1-AB62-A290D526DB4E.jpeg

For few weeks/months I am yes. FYI I will take it but not as an early adopter.

 

Fun fact, because of how messed up my upbringing was I have not taken most of the vaccinations you get a as a child (misplaced paperwork, parents didn't care to sort it out).

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