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Hey long time Mapcorians...I come back here regularly to read...much less regularly to post.  I think now warrants a post: 1) I have several people in my circle who have had this.  (a) My long ti

She's doing better thanks. First couple of days didn't know which way it was gonna go but it settled into mild symptoms which is basically the worst case of flu you'll ever get. To say I was stressed

I took some pictures here in Lyon when I went to buy some stuff...it's really really a strange thing to live with and in the same time it feels good. You can hear birds and no cars, you breathe...yeah

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6 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

So in your logic, if elderly people can't go out -> then nobody can.

 

I'm all for social distancing, being pretty carefull with handwashing etc (masks aren't used properly so they're a bit useless except in some situations).

But I don't believe that you understand the economical realities behind shuting down entire countries, just look at what central banks have been puting on the table to keep the whole system afloat. It is just not sustainable over a long term period.

First I want to say that I believe you are misinterpreting the OP's comment (correct me if I'm wrong OP). Saying that you disagree with Sweden fully opening doesn't implicitly also say you believe the opposite extreme : that the solution is to fully shut down. The issue is they are acting like the virus doesn't exist and with that ignoring the medical expert community wrt to wearing masks, taking extra precautions if you run a business with a high risk such as a restaurant or amusement park etc etc. EDIT: This is what I've heard from talking to some people in Sweden in the last couple weeks, Swedes, feel free to chime in :)

Second counter-argument is that not taking precautions can potentially be worse economically than taking the advice of the medical community if too many people get sick then  collapse the healthcare sector or can't work. In the case of scandanavia the results so far are that Sweden has seen no economic advantage for being open over its neighbors who have taken a more stern approach.

Ultimately with to the amount of discourse and varying opinions no one knows the answer. Although it's starting to look like there's a possibility we'll be able to compare the results of ignoring the medical communities advice vs taking precautions in the near future if things keeps spreading like they are now in some of the southern states in the US.

 

Edited by AlexM
this damn forums software suddenly stopped recognizing my arrow keys and return key
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2 hours ago, AlexM said:

First I want to say that I believe you are misinterpreting the OP's comment (correct me if I'm wrong OP). Saying that you disagree with Sweden fully opening doesn't implicitly also say you believe the opposite extreme : that the solution is to fully shut down. The issue is they are acting like the virus doesn't exist and with that ignoring the medical expert community wrt to wearing masks, taking extra precautions if you run a business with a high risk such as a restaurant or amusement park etc etc. EDIT: This is what I've heard from talking to some people in Sweden in the last couple weeks, Swedes, feel free to chime in :)

Second counter-argument is that not taking precautions can potentially be worse economically than taking the advice of the medical community if too many people get sick then  collapse the healthcare sector or can't work. In the case of scandanavia the results so far are that Sweden has seen no economic advantage for being open over its neighbors who have taken a more stern approach.

Ultimately with to the amount of discourse and varying opinions no one knows the answer. Although it's starting to look like there's a possibility we'll be able to compare the results of ignoring the medical communities advice vs taking precautions in the near future if things keeps spreading like they are now in some of the southern states in the US.

 

Well i'm all for taking precautions, but look at the statistics, 15-44 years deaths are only 1-2% from the people who died from covid.

I just don't see what's the point of blocking the people who are working while the only people who should be extremely carefull are the one retired already.

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1 hour ago, RaVaGe said:

Well i'm all for taking precautions, but look at the statistics, 15-44 years deaths are only 1-2% from the people who died from covid.

I just don't see what's the point of blocking the people who are working while the only people who should be extremely carefull are the one retired already.

The problem is, that the virus does irreparable damage to your body even if symptoms are mild. In general every disease does damage to your body. Even if it's just a cold or the flu or whatever. Sometimes the damage can mostly be regenerated, but often by scar tissue. Also the regeneration potential of the human body is limited. That's why old people die (for example of SARS-Cov-2).

The problem with the "Coronavirus" is that the prevalence of severe symptoms and the damage done to your body is significantly higher than it's the case for Influenza or other common diseases. It's not all good if you just survive the infection. So the amount of infections should be kept as low as possible. We don't know if there will ever be a vaccine or effective treatment.

In my opinion they should have done a super strict lock down Wuhan style for a month in every region with infected people all over the world. Then this Covid thing would not be a problem anymore. But that's probably impossible because short-sighted people insist on their freedom. So we will still talk about Corona in 2021 and probably 2022.

 

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1 hour ago, RaVaGe said:

Well i'm all for taking precautions, but look at the statistics, 15-44 years deaths are only 1-2% from the people who died from covid.

I just don't see what's the point of blocking the people who are working while the only people who should be extremely carefull are the one retired already.

 

That's all the experts are really asking. Take the recommended simple precautions.

No research/advisory group in a professional qualified capacity and in a position of power has advocated a lockdown that I know of. The only case of increased sanctions I can see is for areas that flaunted the original guidance. Even in that case, the people ordering these mandates aren't WHO/CDC/Etc. It's the people originally who flaunted expert advice and suffered the subsequent outbreaks (for example, the governor of texas).

In regards to your statistics. I don't really want to get into that too much but I want to make the point the real debate is far more nuanced than a simple 1-2% death statistic for a certain age group.

 

Edited by AlexM
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  • 4 months later...

Reading a fascinating book from 1841, called Extraordinary Popular Delusions and The Madness of Crowds. It's about market bubbles and delusions that temporarily take over the crowd's minds, such as get rich quick schemes, end of the world prophecies, etc... It gives an extra perspective to our current situation:

Quote

Many persons were of opinion that the emissaries of foreign powers were employed to spread infectious poison over the city; but by far the greater number were convinced that the powers of hell had conspired against them, and that the infection was spread by supernatural agencies. In the mean time the plague increased fearfully. Distrust and alarm took possession of every mind. Everything was believed to have been poisoned by the devil; the waters of the wells, the standing corn in the fields, and the fruit upon the trees. It was believed that all objects of touch were poisoned; the walls of the houses, the pavement of the streets, and the very handles of the doors. The populace were raised to a pitch of ungovernable fury. A strict watch was kept for the devil's emissaries, and any man who wanted to be rid of an enemy, had only to say that he had seen him besmearing a door with ointment; his fate was certain death at the hands of the mob.

 

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Just a few question, who's planning to get vaccinated ?

How much time before the government will take over hospitals and doctors to prevent fake vaccination proof ?

How much time before the non-vaccinated people have to wear a yellow star on their jackets when they go out ?

 

Discuss.

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1 hour ago, RaVaGe said:

Just a few question, who's planning to get vaccinated ?

How much time before the government will take over hospitals and doctors to prevent fake vaccination proof ?

How much time before the non-vaccinated people have to wear a yellow star on their jackets when they go out ?

 

Discuss.

I'm gonna get the vaccine. 

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5 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

How much time before the government will take over hospitals and doctors to prevent fake vaccination proof ?

What you mean by that, and does it refer to any country in particular? Reading this makes sense to me only where hospitals are private, and where I lived (Italy, UK) hospitals are run by the government anyway.

~

In the meantime the EU agency for approval of the vaccines has been hacked -- not sure what to think, if bad or good, in the sense that is good in case they are fast tracking something not really ready for distribution, but at the same time wonder if someone would claim there's proof of vaccines being harmful when it's not the case.

~

Personally needing a vaccine for this makes me feel old, and I wish there was no need. Is not much the right now, one-off, but if I understand correctly we might be looking at more mass vaccinations in the future?
Also would like to have the choice to which vaccine to be injected with, as Pfizer has a shady history and rather go with something else.

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