Valorant

[blackdog]

5 hours ago, Interfearance said:

He actually took a break from his original "in character" youtube to level design on a whim. I get it, and a lot of the stuff he describes level design as is relatable. He has a passion for it. I think the clout he had helped him get noticed by sledgehammer games, but he designed some really good maps

wow

Quote

Beahm went inactive from YouTube in late 2011 and did not release any content for nearly five years.

On March 16, 2011, Beahm was appointed as the community manager of Sledgehammer Games.^[4] He was promoted to level designer and helped create many of the multiplayer maps for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare.^[5]Beahm joined Justin.tv (now Twitch) while he was working at Sledgehammer. He quit Sledgehammer in 2015 to focus on a full-time streaming career.^[6]

Would have never expected such a background

[-HP-]

Yeah, me neither. It does makes sense to a certain extent that someone that's so good at video games and plays them for a living, knows the ins and outs of how to develop them too.

 

[Interfearance]

Say what you want about this game's map design, but the more I watch gameplay the more I feel like I need to play it NOW. The teleportation system looks pretty sick, you can kind of save your push progress without backtracking. Also, the abilities don't look all bad, from what I have heard they are all utilities. You can't really have most of them in CS because the game is fantastical. The only dreaded feeling I think a lot of us got was the lack of sdk or basic editor in a game with such simple maps and stylized art. The game will be a time sinkhole where the only way to really get involved in the community will be becoming pro versus being able to make cool maps.

[will2k]

Valorant anti-cheat starts upon computer boot and runs all the time, even when you don't play the game

[NikiOo]

I remember in a QNA video the devs were asked whether they plan on having a map editor and their response was that they wanted to focus on making the game as good as it can be, and not get distracted with extraneous stuff like that. I personally don't see them ever coming out with a level editor. They're too proud of their visual artistry to ever let a community member influence the look of their game. Riot is a bunch of artists who steal game mechanics from other games. They won't even let you upload your own custom profile icon - instead they have these incredibly generic profile banners, which look like they straight up took the concept art for the weapons and agents off the shelf, along with some product designs for the Valorant brand. Sprays - same thing. And then there are those name tags, which are also similarly generic and corny. And to me this ties back to what yall have said about the abilities that they take away the freedom of exploring the game and discovering cool things and expressing your personality in a unique way. Instead they take these modes of personal expression and bottle them up in an ability - you like to hold off angles? We've got just the right agent for you - Jett. You like to throw strategic smokes while setting up a site execute? Well, you're in the right hands, buddy! We've got Brimstone for ya. You like making info plays and being aware of the movement and positioning of the enemy teams? Here's Cypher! You like chipping away from your enemies'' health with smart nade usage? Raze is just for you. Riot is like a morbidly insecure, overprotective, narcissistic parent (they won't even admit they're trying to compete with CSGO) who scolds his children for watching porn and going to concerts and then gives them placebo pills and cough syrup every night after curfew, trying to make sure they don't get into trouble. Cause trouble is bad. And god forbid you fail at trying to have a personality. That would be too much to swallow. And what will we do with you if you try to line up a smoke and it lands one meter off, then you die because of it and you feel annoyed? No, here's a tablet screen where you can point exactly where you want your smoke to land. Cause heaven forbid, you go play another game! And don't say those nasty words! God always listens!

And if I was on Riot's PR team, I would say add an option to disable that anti-cheat and go public about it, saying "We know that many of you have previously experienced the exploits of intrusive anti cheat (implying ESEA), but we are here to fix that! Our anti-cheat can be disabled at any time you want because we care about you!". Here it's very important to ponder on this trust thing because Riot are very deceptive and they don't want their players developing trust issues, otherwise they might discover that they're full of shit. "So come here, my children! This is a safe haven! You shall lay here in my harem where you can lick your wounds." That's how you draw members into your fucked up cult. You tap into their insecurity and you give an answer to their anxiety.

Also, really smart marketing. The beta release? The twitch streams? The random drops? I was already invested way before I had the chance to try the game and get shit on.

Edited April 13, 2020 by NikiOo

[dmu]

7 hours ago, will2k said:

Valorant anti-cheat starts upon computer boot and runs all the time, even when you don't play the game

Fuck

 

I think most people should reserve opinions until they've played the game, not just go off my single biased view.

Edited April 14, 2020 by DMU222

[Interfearance]

Some of this stuff is starting to sound nuts. It does not even play that similarly to csgo from what we have seen. The abilities are almost all utility that couldn't even exist in the world of csgo. I think the main reason people are playing Valorant is because they really are doing everything right off the bat. The first 3 maps are more adventurous than what I have seen in a while. I can imagine the game going in a good direction in the future due to its developers knowing what they are doing.

Its pretty obvious that competitive csgo players are either riding the wave or hate it because they realize it will sap players from CS. Attack valve, not the competitor. They have milked us for years and you are calling riot a cult. IRONIC

 

[Mitch Mitchell]

On 4/12/2020 at 3:09 AM, Interfearance said:

Not strictly related, but awesome video.

0:30 thoughts on valorant maps

6:48 thoughts on corporate ladder creating monotony in mapping

most of the vid shows his design process for aw maps if you are interested

Mind=Blown

I need to take along walk in the country to get over this. Sadly, that's not possible right now...maybe I'll go play with my lego and build de_Dust2

 

[Passerby97]

11 hours ago, Interfearance said:

They have milked us for years and you are calling riot a cult. IRONIC

 

How is CS milking its players? CS is a one-time purchase. After paying once, you can play 10 years later. That is a fair model. Especially now, as the game is free-to-play and has no cost for playing competitively.

In CS, your character or account doesn't get better over time, you do.

That is not true at all for games that are live-service first, a competitive game second like League of Legends or Valorant. I have no idea why they are even called competitive games. Starting with a fresh account gives you at most times a disadvantage great enough to not be able to win against lower skilled opponents, who have the meta heroes unlocked. The live service is literally more important than the competitive integrity of the game.

In a live service game, pro players are required to buy the heroes at launch to get a competitive advantage. Pro players have to pay the developer a fee for playing their game competitively. The game isn't a one-time purchase. Wouldn't you call that milking?

[-HP-]

Finished a full match yesterday, so I played Valorant for about 40 or so minutes.

The first few minutes, it definitely feels like CS. It moves like CS, it jumps like CS, weapon firing feels exactly like CS, has exactly the same guns as CS (they've just been renamed and look different), they basically started out with CS as the foundation and tried to mess around with it's formula a bit.
Then you start noticing the small differences, for instance the attackers are stuck in the spawn for 30 seconds. This is probably due to the map I played (Haven) being wider, since there's 3 bomb spots, A, B and C. (I've yet to try the other 2 maps, which only have A and B, like CS)

I played the whole match with the Phoenix class, afaik you can't change class midgame, but I could be wrong. I think he might be the most classic "CS" class too, since you have your flashbang and a molotof, he can also cast a wall of fire that seems to deal damage to anyone that touches it and also works as a vision blocker. His ult allows him to put a teleport on the ground that you can teleport back to. I'll try the other classes later.

The level design feels very grid like and lacking any sort of organic feeling to it. At least the map I played feels like a 90° hodge podge, loads of sharp corners everywhere, which I know plays well in this genre but I wish they introduced a bit of the pareto principle and had a range there to break up the monotony.

 

Here's a link for the 3 maps, if you guys are curious to check it out: https://blitz.gg/valorant/maps

Will play some more and let you know my thoughts.

 

[Interfearance]

3 hours ago, Passerby97 said:

That is a fair model.

Im not gonna talk about csgo anymore on this thread, but do you seriously think that valve's model is game sales? They rely on players to invest in skins. Nobody buys skins for a game with no longevity or fun. People either seek to get a return on investment, or play with the skins in game. Therefore, it is logical that the game should be maintained with the cosmetics. Instead, a day of manpower is being spent on cosmetics for every minute they spend improving the game. In other words, cs has stagnated update wise. The only reason I still play is because there are no good alternatives.

On the other hand, valorant looks to be investing tons of money into their game, and having to play the game to unlock a few characters is not even a complaint. It might even be a good thing, because smurfs will be nerfed if the classes are as unbalanced as you describe.

And about the live service. Have you heard of a little game called r6? yeah you have to buy the ops to get in quick. Is anyone complaining about it? Is the competitive scene collapsing because you have to play the game to get ops? The league scene is much more popular than the cs scene, I don't think it got there by being "uncompetitive". If valorant does competitive like league they are going places. There are no "good" and "bad" companies, just ones that realize improving the game will net them more cash. Of course since we are on mapcore there are people who will sooner murder their grandmas than convict valve of mis-stepping.

49 minutes ago, [HP] said:

The level design feels very grid like and lacking any sort of organic feeling to it.

I agree but I feel like it worked since the game is so stylized and "fake" already. The benefit imo is that everything felt super well defined.

[text_fish]

I'm not gonna say you're talking out of your arse, but...

 

Seriously though, how can you start a rant about csgo by saying you're not going to talk about csgo and then close your argument with a sweeping statement about Mapcore being full of Valve fanboys and not realise you're being a knob? Or maybe you do realise?

[Interfearance]

2 hours ago, text_fish said:

I'm not gonna say you're talking out of your arse, but...

 

Seriously though, how can you start a rant about csgo by saying you're not going to talk about csgo and then close your argument with a sweeping statement about Mapcore being full of Valve fanboys and not realise you're being a knob? Or maybe you do realise?

On mapcore there are people who would sooner... ≠ On mapcore, people would sooner...

Also yes I am a bit of a knob.

 

[Passerby97]

14 hours ago, Interfearance said:

Im not gonna talk about csgo anymore on this thread, but do you seriously think that valve's model is game

And about the live service. Have you heard of a little game called r6? yeah you have to buy the ops to get in quick. Is anyone complaining about it? Is the competitive scene collapsing because you have to play the game to get ops?

Your definition of competitive games is so loose and nonsensical it would include my internet bill. After all, if it being a live service does not disqualify something from being a competitive game, why wouldn't my internet provider's bill with no clear rules be considered a sport the same way you defined live service like LOL and R6? In similar vain, wouldn't every online competition be a valid esport then? 

New Esport: The top 1000 fastest to sign up to website.com get 30% off their first purchase!
Your argument falls apart the moment you put it into reality. Valorant isn't different to that 30% sign up advert: Competition is secondary to getting those signing up/buying new unlockable heroes because of the competition. You have failed to define competitive games beyond having a competition. Well done, every advert with a time limit is a new esport.

These live service games again, are only competitive to sell their live service model more akin to a pyramid scheme than a competitive sport. when you look it through these lens, it's a miracle people still fall for this trick. Wasn't there a big campaign against live service games with EA and Activision a few years back?

'Competitive' Is the new 'lootbox' of game pitch meetings.

[Interfearance]

@Passerby97 Valorant already looks like the gameplay will at least equally viable in competition when compared to csgo. If people want to buy heroes than that is on them, but it doesn't ruin the game. Also there is a snuck premise in your argument that the standard classes are worse than those that are unlockable. Yeah, everybody wants shit for free, of course they are going to oppose a shifting business model. I would rather have unlockable characters and real updates than shitloads of cosmetics and idle developers. Also, and ironically, with the 15 dollars to not get hackers in your lobby in cs, you can get good characters in valorant.

I think you have missed the things that are actually bad about valorant to cover valve's ass (anti-cheat, lack of modding, not enough spray patterns, uninteresting angles).